Merek vs 308 vs Pantera

Pantera all the way. Plenty of parts, reliable motor, cheap power. Just avoid the rain!

 

I've owned 2 308's and I've driven and done some minor maintenance work on a Pantera.

To me, the 308 is a much more complete package. In a Pantera, I found the driving position to be very uncomfortable (and I'm only 5 foot 7), the interior noisy and hot, the controls oddly placed, and the brutal acceleration downright scary as the car squirms around. After driving a 308, the Pantera seemed like a handful to me. Yes, acceleration was amazing but I feared trying my luck more than once. I never felt that way in a 308.

Pantera's also have a design flaw that 308's don't have... overheating. There are refit kits to help correct the flaw. I would check the car you buy to see if it was done, especially with the earliest years.

I would agree that the Ford engine and ZF box are beefier and easier to maintain. But, working on the Pantera engine means that you literally have to step into the rear and stand on the suspension to work on it because the engine is so far forward. Its very awkward to work in the engine compartment. Open up the back and look at where the distributor is placed and you'll see what I mean. On the 308, aside from the front bank, it's not that bad to get to the engine. You have to pull the left side inner fender but it's designed to do that. On the flip side, the 308 does require timing belt changes and the Ford doesn't.

The Pantera is also an older designed and engineered car. I found it a bit more crudely screwed together than the 308. The ZF is harder to shift than the Ferrari and it had a much heavier clutch. The AC system is not as good as a 308. The heater vents are manual and often don't close all the way.

You can argue both ways whether a carburator is easier to work on/more reliable than Bosch Fuel Injection. Both have their advantages. All I can say is that there's a reason why every car now uses FI and it's not just because of emissions. If you like to dink around and you know what you're doing, carbs are easier and more fun to work on.

The electrical system on the Pantera is Lucas. Do I need to say more? Starting in damp weather can be a problem. Keeping the starter and ignition wire connections coated in water repellant can help.

My understanding is that the Pantera chassis frame rails are prone to rusting (as is the car in general) so I wouldn't buy one without a complete underbody inspection. I saw this problem on the car I was working on and it's not pretty seeing rust-through holes in the rails. 308's being a bit more modern can have a rust problem but not nearly as severe.

But, you can modify the Pantera more and unlike the 308, people actually appreciate upgrading and modifying the cars from original.

Others with more experience in ownership of Pantera's may have better information but I found that parts prices for Pantera's isn't necessarly cheaper than for the Ferrari. For example, a complete Factory clutch assembly for a Pantera runs about $650 and the 308 just a bit less. You can go aftermarket with both (like Centerforce) for less but I'm just trying to compare apples to apples here. Clutch adjustment is critical in a Pantera to avoid a costly problem with wearing out the sychros.

There are a lot more sources for Ferrari parts than Pantera but almost everything can be found for both. Wilkinson is still the official US Pantera importer I believe. You can look around here for stuff:

http://www.panterasbywilkinson.com/webpages/catalog/catalog.html

There are other parts suppliers if you hunt around on google. If someone has a better source, please chime in.

They are both fine "toy" cars. The 308 has it's faults and so does the Pantera. As to the issue of pricing, it's often true that you get what you pay for. Getting one with low miles, in good condition, and well documented maintenance will cost you more. Color and options will also be a factor. So, it depends on what you want and how much you want to spend.

I think it comes down to whether you prefer a hammer (the Pantera) over a scalpel (the 308). I'm sure there are many happy Pantera owners out there that would prefer their cars over a 308 anyday. But, I prefer the 308 or it's lovely upgraded sister, the 328, over it.

 

Sorry to say - but for me the Pantera is a "bitsa-car": Italian looks with simple US-engine! No real Italian horse IMO!

I found the 308 much better build than the Pantera. Of course the DeTomaso has much more punch than the Ferrari or the Maserati. The Merak has a slightly better performance than the 308 and later models of this Maserati-type had the same good build-quality than the 308.

I see only one DeTomaso that is really worth to collect: the Vallelunga!

Just my 2 cts!

Ciao!
Walter

 

Easy choice for me. I got a Pantera. It's the easiest to work on exotic that I have touched. I climb into the engine bay, like a boat . I can pull a transaxle by myself in under two hours while enjoying a few beers. More room than a Countach. The seating position & dash layout I like better in the 308, but that's about it. Parts are not bad. I had my transaxle rebuilt & safety wired for a little over 2k. That simple US engine, mildly modified, will crank out a zero to 60 in under 4.5 seconds, in first gear. If it blows up, it won't take a bailout from Congress to fix it.

 

I can't stop laughing...that's hillarious!!!

 

Does the Merak out perform the 308? This is the fist time I have read this.

I agree about the Vallelunga - a really pretty car; too bad only so few were made!

 

As far as U.S. models go, even the most bogged down (carbureted+catalyst 205hp) 308s are still faster than even a Merak SS. The 308 is a much more sporting car, whereas the Merak is much more of a grand tourer. The 308 is the car I would take for a blast down a twisty road; the Merak is the car I would take on a long freeway trip. The Merak turns fewer RPMs per MPH on the highway, and that helps after a couple of hours.

I appreciate the Pantera, but would never consider owning one, for the reasons stated by others above.

About a year ago, I was buying, and was making the same decision: 308 or Merak. I ended up with a 308, but could buy a Merak any day. They are very different cars, which is cool. If cars had personalities, I would say a 308 is a more passionate car, and the Merak is more gentrified.

As for maintenance, the Merak needs less of it (fewer valves and carburetors, timing chains instead of belts, etc.), but is more complicated to work on; from a servicing standpoint, the 308 is a better thought out car. But don't let the early Merak's hydraulics scare you; the accumulators are only around $100 each to rebuild, and they last 10-15 years.

Get up close with each, and decide which you like better. I'd like both!

 

On Panteras, another design flaw is the stereo. Don't put cd's in the vertically-mounted radio. The gyroscopic effect and then you go to turn the car and it skips lol

 

The previous posters were on target with a lot regarding the Pantera but I still vote for the DeTomaso... You cannot erase the grin it leaves on your face for several hours. There is nothing that compares to its sheer brutality for it's vintage. It's handling and braking can be made world class without breaking the bank too much. For me the car is awe- inspiring.

 

FWIW the folks at T. Rulands told me a stock well tuned Merak SS will outrun a stock well tuned carburated 3x8. Walter can tell you all about modifications available for a Merak SS to make it run like a bat out of ...well you get the idea. With all the available technology a Merak SS can certainly be improved upon. The final execution of Merak SS, IMHO is much more modern, more elegant and more muscular looking than the other two. Don't get me wrong, I am a big fan of the other two...the late Merak SS is what I wanted, a rare one to be sure. Drive them all, decide what are the key points you are looking for in the car and then buy it. For the $ you can't beat a Vette for performance, but then again there is a Vette around every corner here in Atlanta. Lots of 3x8s, a few Panteras here and there, and once in a while if you are lucky you may see a Merak. With the 3x8, a number of folks are turbo and supercharging them for improved performance...that's very, very interesting....talk about performance. Options, options, options, sometimes it's so hard to make a choice.....best of luck with your decision process.

Ciao,
George

 

a good pantera would be my choice

in fact is the only of the 3 i considered buyng when i was shopping for exotics

 

I really need to drive a Merak SS - if just to see if I fit.

 

Thanks, the Pantera has better rear vision, and gas mileage also. It's one of the easiest cars to convert to propane if gas ever becomes a concern .

 

I have owned all 3, Have a Merak and 1979 308 presently. Merak is much faster than a 308, but the engine in the Merak is completely unreliable. Have rebuilt mine 3 times now: 1. valve seat slipped off head and held open valve, 2. Valve spring keeper came loose, 3. piece of carbon on the valve seat held valve opened a very slight amount (got there due to backfires?).

308 is almost bulletproof, great reliabilty.

pantera is bulletproof, you would kill yourself in any futile attempt to abuse the drivetrain. Very fast in straight line only.

 

having owned a euro 308 and a Pantera, never owned a Merek....Merek's do nothing for me, Bora's do though ....I would go Pantera all the way! Find one all 'buffed' out with upgrades and modernization and everyone left out an important part of the equation...the LOOKS..Pantera trumps the other two by a long shot in my opinion. Build it to go 200 mph if you want!

 

I'm glad you said it and not me... but I totally agree with you on the Merak motor. A backfire can cause a valve to drop. The Bora motor, on the other hand, is wonderful.

 

Tony,
I do not agree with you on this point.

The Merak SS engine needs much revs to get the car "alive". Its more to a race car than a true tourer (but you can -of course- take it for long runs.). Also it has a stiffer suspension. I would always use the 308 for a long freeway trip rather than the Merak.

While the 308 is more neutral in corners the Merak is an understeerer.

Last year I bougt a 328 GTB from 1986. The car is much more comftable than the Merak and perfect for long distances. But on a circuit I am retty sure that any good driver will outperform a 308 and even the 328 when driving my tuned little darkblue `81 Merak SS !

Great cars they are all ( -- No, not a big fan of the DeTomaso)

Ciao!
Walter

 

Hi Walter,

Are you in the USA or Europe? I know that the gear ratios are different on U.S. model 308s vs. European model cars -- U.S. versions need higher RPMs to maintain a given speed in 5th gear. And an early 308 is a very different beast from a 328 -- the 328 is much more modern and civilized. And 308 GTBs are a different experience from GTSs. The carburetors and engine noise in a 308 are louder than in a Merak -- Merak is better insulated (the perfect balance, in my opinion of enjohying the engine sound without being too loud). Cruising in 5th gear at 70-75mph for a couple of hours, 308s give me a headache; never happened in a Merak. As far as suspension goes, they're both stiff on bumpy roads (ever drive a rural highway in southeast Michigan?); I'd take the Merak because the car pitches less (nose/tail) at lower speeds thanks to the longer wheelbase. I agree with having to keep the revs up to get performance out of a Merak -- but I don't worry about that on, say, Interstate 90 or 75 -- just cruising, not racing!

In my opinion, the car that does it all is the Lotus Turbo Esprit . . .

Cheers,

Tony

 

Having owned both a '80 Merak SS and currently a '76 GTB I would say the power difference is negligible. Although the Merak SS engine certainly has more torque and handles a little better, the early 308 wins in terms of the engine sound, engine stability, and high speed stability. My Merak ss never felt as planted as the 308 does over 120mph. As in, I feel much more at ease at higher speeds with the Ferrari than with the Merak . Could have been the tires but not sure.

Looks is undoubtedly a toss up unless we are talking about US versions. The steps taken by Maserati to make the Merak comply really look awful and ruins that perfectly delicate front and rear Merak body treatment.

 

Wheels and tires certainly make a huge difference. Certainly that must have been the problem. Secondly, The Merak sits higher than a 308. At that kind of speed [+120] a lower center of gravity certainly does give greater stability, so I suspect that may have factored into your stability assessment of the 2 cars.

Ciao,
George

 

Buy a Merak or a 308. Grow a handlebar moustache, get a plaid flat cap and some open knuckle driving gloves. Buy a Pantera and go get a tatoo.

 

And an extra pair of shorts as you try to round a high speed corner!

 

hahahahaa. likely in all of 'em!