Merged: Can't buy a new Ferrari!

Ding-ding-ding! We have a winner!

 

Rossa Schuderia is the same red as used on a pack of Marlboro cigarettes, a large Ferrari F1 sponsor.

 

Guys & Gals
Ferrari has a long history of being arrogant. Enzo would only sell to people he approved of. His arrogance led to Lamborghinis being born not to mention the Ford GT40 and now GT!

People who want to buy a 575 can get one pretty quick. It's the 360/430's that are hot. In Ferrari's defense, they could raise the price to say 250K and still sell them all. Since they can't raise production significantly, raising the price is their only alternative to find market equilibrium. I'm guessing they don't do that because they do not wish to piss off their long term customers and they also know a worldwide recession could really hurt them just like the early 90's.

Flipping can't be stopped, it happens in other brands as well when there is a hot item. F50's were not sold in the US, "buyers" were forced to take a 2 year lease which kept them from flipping for 2 years. For whatever reason, they have chosen not to go that route again. I know our local dealer asks buyers for a FROR if the buyer wants to flip. I don't think this is unreasonable.

I got on the list for what was then known as "360 replacement" in 9/02. They told me it could be 5 years. Now looks like 3-3.5. It does not bother me that established customers who buy both hot and not so hot models would get preference. In my own business, I often get items that would be difficult or impossible to replace and have multiple buyers. I choose to offer them to my best customers first, but I also don't abuse the customers with price gouging and hope to get the item back some day by treating them very well.

As a first time new Ferrari buyer myself, I know that if I want a hot item, I need to be patient and someday I may be preferred.

DAve

 

Rod already owns an F-car, so he's "in the system" so to speak. Customer loyalty and all that, his money, his fame. Plus, he drove Katie Currick around in it and got her to carry on about her first-ever ride in a Ferrari on national TV a week or two ago. She was drooling at the car as much as she was at him. You bet he'd get one. Schumi -- do you even have to ask that question???

 

So what model/colour F-Car does Rod Stewart drive? And are there any other movie stars who currently drive Ferraris? I'm sure the F-Chatters would be interested to know.

 

I know you're fairly new to FChat... You might do a SEARCH -- this has been a well-discussed topic.

Thread: Ferraris and Celebrities - www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1173

Rod Steward has more than one Ferrari, by the way. You can see his red Enzo at http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34090 but he's also got a blue 575

 

Thanx for the advice Mike.

 

Roll into the local dealer and order a new Ferrari as your first F car.

Not gonna happen.

Roll into a dealer, buy a used Ferrari, happens all the time.

Drive the used Ferrari. Get it serviced at the dealer. Develop a relationship with the dealer both in sales and service.

Develop patience.

Visit regularly.

Buy another car, perhaps a new Maserati.

Now, drop the bomb.

"I want a new Ferrari, please put me on the list."

Guess what, they will. At least at my dealer they will.

 

At about $10,000 to $30,000 or more over TRUE market value i might ad.

Again at a HUGE markup over true market value, again costing you thousands of unnecessary dollars. Now you are, perhaps, up to $30,000 or more over market price.

And watch it depreciate over $30,000 in only three years of ownership. So now you have effectivly 'donated' $50,000 or so to the dealer. For $50,000 you could have bought a SECOND used Ferrari, but it is only money, right?

Your bankrupt?

Oh, THAT bomb. Sure that works after 'donating' many tens of thousands of dollars to the dealer.

i would HOPE they would for THAT type of money. Oh, that $100,000 Maserati you purchased... good luck finding a buyer three years later for $70,000. Best move i EVER made financially was in taking back my deposit on a new Maserati in 2002. For the $30k loss ALONE one could buy a nice 308 for daily driving AND STILL buy a three year old (and under warranty, but i will cover the warranty thing below) Maserati

My HUGE apologies for sounding a bit 'realistic' here, yet i am not one to 'donate' tens of thousand of dollars to someone for no 'real' reason. And by looking at the recent warranty situations, seems buying new with warranty means not too much. Sure, they may cover the basic odd and end, yet buying a used, well sorted out example seems more wise. Please feel free to correct me if i missed something.

 

Steve.

If you want to play with the new car guys, you have to play by their rules, right? Some folks just have to get the latest, newsest, shiney-ist car available.

If used works for you, as it did for me, then it's not a problem, although I have not gotten hosed by my dealer on the price of the car or the service performed to date. They let me buy my own parts, don't charge me extra to install them, and honor their estimates for repairs, even when they end up having many additional hours in the job.

It seems to me that there is a lot of pent up hostility at the dealers on this board. I haven't seen any of the bad behaviors described at Algar, although I'm sure they have occured.

I did not overpay for my Dino, and don't have so much money into it that I'll get killed down the road, should I ever decide to sell.

Algar seems to have no problem moving used cars, at dealer prices. They have to compete with the guys in Glenside, along with the host of other dealers who work the internet.

Just my $.02.

 

True. My apologies for possibly sounding a bit hostile, yet good dealers like Algar seem far and few in between

And that is GREAT to hear my friend. Perhaps the weekly postings of 'not covered under warranty' threads on new cars and whatnot have grown tiring to read. If it was a rare, unusual situation here on Fchat my feelings would be different towards dealers. And no, have never been 'burnt' by a dealer and FNE was good to deal with when i put a DP on the Maserati. Perhaps all the horror stories about the new cars are being blown out of proportion, or the web truly exposes the many downfalls of these cars, yet when i read about FNA/Dealers not covering what appears to be obvious under warranty parts it makes my blood boil.

Ok, off soap box. Again, my apologies if i came off a bit hostile yet sometimes i wonder if a warranty means ANYTHING with these cars (blown headers, broken emissions parts, suspension bits turning, etc etc etc.).

And am sure it is just a rumor that Ferrari charges thousands of dollars to simply flash the software on their cars when they have udated things. Honda, Toyota, Crysler, Ford, etc give free software flash upgrades when you bring cars into service and am sure Ferrari does the same, right?

 

Steven, before you dive into the deep end, let's review the numbers. A Ferrari dealership is not the money-printing machine that you might think.

For starters, divide 1,200 by 32 or 33. FNA brings in about 1,200 to 1,300 new Ferraris a year and there are 32 or 33 dealerships. This means that each dealership sells on average 3 to 4 cars a month.

The standand dealer profit on a 360/430 Dino (as Frank Parker likes to call em) is $20,000. The supposed profit in a real V12 Ferrari is $30,000. However, most dealers have been happy if they can make $10,000 to $15,000 on a 575 or 456. From what I have heard, the dealers made $60,000 on an Enzo, but the allocation wasn't equal (I believe that some dealers never got one.)

So let's say that the typical dealer made $1M to $1.5M gross profit from selling new Ferraris.

Now, let's figure in the beating that the dealers took moving their allocation of Maseratis. To get those profitable new Ferraris to sell, each dealer had to pay some dues. The rumor is that none of the dealers have made a nickle selling their Masers. In fact, most lost money.

From this, let's subtract the cost of running a new car sales operations. Salaries probably add up to somewhere between $300k and $450K. Rent, varies by area, but figure somewhere between $250K and $500K. Then you tack on insurance, taxes, the light bill, security, and so forth and so on, and next thing you known, ole Jeb ain't a millionaire no longer.

Given this, does it surprise you that dealers try to get every dollar they can from flipping "used cars," parts and service?

As one put it to me, getting into the bidness is a perfect way of ruining a great passion.

Dale

 

that's a pretty cynical perspective steven. i know the heat of the moment got you going, but i have not experienced most of those things dealing with FoNE, for example.

did i pay more for my 550 there than i would have if i bought private party? absolutely. did i get more for my 550 when i sold it back to them than i would have if i had sold it to a private party? absolutely. did it wash in the end? absolutely - in fact, i probably ended up better off.

i also got an okay deal from them when i sold them my 355 Spider.

and as for service costs, i have compared the local options here around Boston and while a major in June might be awfully pricey, if you can be careful about planning and scheduling, all the shops will negotiate similar rates for things like majors and whatnot.

i can imagine that some dealers are more problematic than others. when i was assembling the 550 major comparison spreadsheet i never released dealer names from all the paperwork i received, but it was clear that things varied wildly across the country and from dealer to dealer (authorized and independent). from labor rates, to hours, to thoroughness.

i just think it's unfair to blanket categorize everybody into the same bucket.

there are plenty of independent dealers who have screwed people but good with damaged cars, sub-standard service, and all manner of other problems. i'm sure it's the same in the honda world.

fwiw,
doody.

 

Doody and Dr. Who,

Ok, you're right. Yes it is a tough market out there and am sure Lambo, Ford GT, Porsche, Lotus (to name a few) are really cutting into a few things. Guess i picked a bad week to quit sniffing brake fluid.

Ferrari dealers are stuck between a rock and a hard place as there is more demand than supply, and this naturally reduces the chances for a dealer to make an honest dollar. Can only imagine being a sales person with a wife, kids, and mortgage hoping to pay his bills, have ten CASH buyers for a $250,000 car but only have 4 to sell. So yes, squeeze out every last dollar you can, while you can. The car industry is a bit perplexing at times... but then again so is the music industry.

 

Hey, don't bogart all that brake fluid!

 

Doody,

BTW, fully agree servicing costs wildly vary. A timing belts change on a 308 in the UK is a mere $800 or so, while here in the USA... Well, in the end i still take issue to mere software upgrades being additional $$$ as they should be free as virtually all other automobile manufacturers do. But hey, such is the price ones pays for technological engineering versus pure mechanical engineering i guess. Just hard for me to swallow paying thousands of dollars for a mere software flash for a car that should be a free (or 15 minutes of labor time) part of service.

 

AZ. I know less about Lambo's than Fcars, and I don't know all that much about them either, but, does the Lambo have the almost unexplainable appeal that the Ferrari has?

I can't describe it exactly, but the lines of a Ferrari are sexy and sleek, and the lines of the Lambos that I've seen are brutish, overstated and hard.

I personally prefer the F cars because of that. I'm sure the Lambo wins in a drag race, but that's not all of what this is about. Owning an exotic is about the total experience. Seems to me, loving a Ferrari and a Lambo is almost mutually exclusive, because of the style differences.

Just wondered about your thinking on this.

Also, have you considered asking a fellow fchatter to help with a purchase for you? There may be some here who would be able to jump to the top of a list and get a car, based on prior purchases, or a relationship with the dealer.

Just a thought.

DM

 

Take heart in knowing that eventually Ferrari dealers will reap what they have sown into their "potential" buyers pool.

 

A dealer allocating new Ferraris to their best customers is no different than what happens at an exclusive restaurant or night club. There are only so many seats, and the best or connected customers get preferential treatment. If you don't like it, buy a Porsche or Lambo. The world moves on.