"That's just an overpriced VW."
"If Porsche can sell 20,000 a year, won't that be a dime a dozen? Won't the S class (sic) more expensive then where this likely will be priced?" I assumed that this car would be in the region of 80-90k dollars U.S. without regard to higher performance/price variants. Am I wrong? As to becoming a dime a dozen if 20k cars are sold a year, yes, i suppose so, but not at first, and unlike the Maser-which has no aura of reliability, dealership network or support in this country, Porsche comes to the market fully equipped on all fronts. I think this will eat into purchases of AMG cars; as to big M's, there just aren't that many on the road, are there?
I think Whart and Uro are right on this. The car will be a huge hit, I don't see how it couldn't. Remember, no one wanted the Cayenne, but now Porsche sells more of them than any other model. The purists won't like it, but I bet at least a few of them will buy it as a family car. I really want to see a front-engined Porsche, it will almost be like bringing back the 928.
Good point. Also, the Porsche brand is still pretty high-end (staying above the $40-45k price level), and I think that they could get the "exclusive" crowd, which BMW and MB is risking with the downmarket approach. Also, the interiors and gadgets need to get on par with Audi, BMW and MB to be a great competitor.
Not sure about the all the gadgetry being a selling point. It killed the 7, has plagued the S and unless MB got its act together as it claims to, they have also gone toward, rather than away from, electronic gimmicks in the control panels. I think as long as it's elegant, uses high quality materials, and is designed well inside, that would be a bonus. But, i'm probably not the average buyer of a big sedan.
612 is in a different league, which only appeals to those who want a Ferrari 2+2 and willing to spend $200k+ to have it. Not many. This car will appeal to those who can afford a Porsche, but must have the extra 2 seats in the back for medium to large adults, and despise SUVs. Face it, you can't squeeze more than children into the backs of the Porsche's. For all of you who want to scream its not a real Porsche, we heard from you already when the Cayenne came out. STFU. When profits come before pedigree, this is what you get. There is no more respect to lose and the damage has already been done. Might as well enjoy it, because its going to be a very cool sedan. Sunny
Porsche 'purists' gave up on the company long ago. But, leaving die-hard air-cooled fanatics of the past aside, for the moment, what's wrong with the idea of such a car? As you point out, Sunny, Ferrari has long made 2 + 2's that, while performance oriented, are hardly 'pure' sportscars. There were great Bugattis in all shapes and sizes, too, and the fact that the company made sedans was not viewed as a loss of direction. If the first goal of any business is to make a profit, then surely this is a better way to do it than to get bought out by a larger company, and have bean counters putting el cheapo dash board components in your "ultra" car (we won't name names here, will we?) scavenged from some eco-box elsewhere in the parts-bin line up? I don't have a problem with the concept of the car; driving it, and exploring its comforts is a whole other question. But I don't think its a sign that Porsche has 'sold out.'
I agree. At first, I was kinda like "WTF about the SUV". But I realize that Porsche isn't going the way of MB, by going downmarket, but just evolving from a high-end sports car maker to a sports automobile maker. And I kinda grown to like the Cayenne (though I would likely want a luxury car in the SUV and sedan department).
Bill, thats true, but its more like an image change that purists don't agree with, and have probably never agreed with, if its Porsche or another company with pedigree. I think you would agree! Purists are just upset that when Porsche comes to mind, people no longer associate Porsche with the 911 -- Mom's think Cayenne instead of minivan, corp execs think Panamera instead of S500, etc. Its really not terrible but an expected expansion by Porsche into other markets at/above the $50k price point. What will continue to carry the Porsche image is that these other non-sports cars are high performance and true to the Porsche legacy. The Panamera is going to be a screamer. Doesn't anyone reading this tread realize that Porsche can and probably will stuff a V10 under the hood? V10 as in Carrera GT? Porsche can (and probably will) build the Panamera to eclipse the M5 and the Quattroporte. I still lament it when any manufacturer has to jump into another market because of competition in its primary one. In summary, bring it! Its probably going to rock. Sunny
Good points. I just wonder if they went with a V10 in the Pan., and have similar performances in the new Cayman and the other lines such as the Cayenne and the Boxster, will this force the 911 to remarket itself at the price level and performance.
Here's an earth shaking reality check: Porsche doesn't give a sorry rat's @ss what any of us think; they will build what will benefit the company. Not to mention its not nearly as egregious as the Chili Pepper.
In my opinion, yes. They need to do it already to put some distance between it and the Cayman. The 911 is to the Cayman as the Vanquish is to the DB9. The only way for the 911 to go is up in price and performance with the Boxster and the Cayman in the lineup. I would expect the 911 sports cars to become more; more rare, more pricy, with more performance. The CGT is a crowning achievement but its not the crown jewel. The 911 is poised to take up some of the vaccuum created by the CGT. Would you agree? Sunny
Those who work at Porsche don't exactly build mediocre anything. As long as these kinds of people stay in charge and they keep making money, I'm glad they don't listen to us. Sunny
I have already started reading PORSCHE magazines talking about the Cayman being the new "real" driver's Porsche instead of the 911, if it delivers anywhere NEAR the level of performance of which it is capable. If the water cooled, Cayenne producing Porsche didn't drive "pursists" away, nothing will. And IMO...who needs 'em (the purists). "Selling out" and "pedigree" complaints are pointless. Like someone else said, even their SUV hauls ass and is designed to an incredible level of engineering, so as along as THAT stays the focus...Porsche will remain Porsche. WRT to the Cayenne...if you had to pick ONE off the shelf SUV (or hell, any kind of vehicle other than a motorcycle) to run the Paris to Dakar race in...what would you pick OTHER than a Cayenne Turbo? I know what I would pick.
Exactly, which is why Maserati needs to build an SUV. Porsche could very easily have a superb offering for every market segment above $40K. There's no reason why they should leave all that money to BMW and MB, although they should be able to debut it before 2009. 2009? I suppose they plan to build it from the ground up, an entirely new platform, but still, four years? It only took three years to do the super sophisticated Carrera GT. Having said that, it should be worth the wait. Cavallini
The GT idea doesn't bother me at all, as a 911 owner. If Porsche wanted to come out with a German 612 with a CGT-based V-10, I'd be all over it. There's plenty of room for base Boxsters and uber-911's like the GT2. P-car buyers have kids, and there's no reason not to accommodate them. But the four-door idea does bother me. It just muddles the brand even more. There was something very sensible about having Porsche and Audi together - Porsche made the two seaters, Audi did the nice fast German sedans, and the world made sense. Now all we need is for Land Rover to make a sports car. Maybe that's why I admire Ferrari so much. It's a synonym for sports car. Couldn't agree more. 993 was much nicer than 996. 997 isn't the huge leap the media have been saying.
