Metal in gearbox oil | FerrariChat

Metal in gearbox oil

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by testamon, Jul 22, 2010.

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  1. testamon

    testamon Formula Junior

    Aug 16, 2008
    346
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    Mike O
    I have had a chance to drop the oil out of my box after a total drive failure. The rear plug was drained first and found a number of metal pieces. Almost as many came out of the front drain plug. In total probably 50 small shavings. On close inspection looks like casing material and none of it would get attracted to the magnet on plug. Jacked up the rear wheel and can turn the wheel with some effort and looking in the rear drain hole the pinion etc looks fine. Would this be the result of quill shaft/propellor shaft failure rather than diff carrier failure. Even if it is not carrier failure I will replace it with the job. Does the box need stripping because of the metal etc. If it is the quill shaft can this be replaced with engine etc in car? Is it better to do a carrier with the diff in car to get the correct pre loads etc. thans for any input
     
  2. JoshECS

    JoshECS Formula Junior
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    May 3, 2010
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    Josh Hill
    #2 JoshECS, Jul 23, 2010
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2010
    If the metal doesn't get picked up by a magnet it won't be the transfer shaft as it's steel. If it were just a simple transfer shaft it can be replaced and the gearbox can get flushed while in the car.

    I recommend getting it out and onto the bench for a complete disassembly and inspection though. It's difficult to judge how long material has been floating around and what it's effects were on the bearings and synchros. I prefer to take the time to be thourough and avoid doing all this work only to find a whine or weak synchro afterwards.
     
  3. testamon

    testamon Formula Junior

    Aug 16, 2008
    346
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    Mike O
    Thanks Josh. Thats pretty much the plan that I am thinking. I would say the bits are probably from the left diff cover when the carrier broke and the action of the crown and pinion pushed it all sideways. It still puzzles me as to why I had no drive at all. I could select all gears and let out the clutch and go nowhere. Knowing my luck I have 2 problems!
     
  4. JoshECS

    JoshECS Formula Junior
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    May 3, 2010
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    Josh Hill
    Most likely the diff has shifted enough that the ring gear isn't making contact with the pinion gear. Best of luck, hope it goes well.
     
  5. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 26, 2001
    14,448
    Canada
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    Newman
    Sounds like the propellor shaft broke, it may be shaving material off the left side cover where it passes through and above the left axle.
     
  6. testamon

    testamon Formula Junior

    Aug 16, 2008
    346
    Sydney
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    Mike O
    Hi Paul, I thought the prop shaft or quill shaft was well supported on both ends and would probably not flail around enough to score the housing? I suppose at the end I am only guessing. Next week I will drop the engine and gearbox and split the box and engine to check for any damage. Either way while it is all apart I will replace the carrier with one of yours. worthwhile checking syncros etc while it is out. Just a shame I have only done about 500 miles since a major.
     
  7. Shamile

    Shamile F1 Veteran

    Dec 31, 2002
    6,712
    Lakeland FL
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    Shamile
    Dear Ferraristi,

    Just wondering...if it was the carrier breaking, wouldn't you have visible signs on the outer case? When this happened to Testarob, he was driving and gear oil started spewing from under the car where the carrier cracked the case.

    I'm wondering if you haven't just broken the propeller shaft. To check that, you don't have to pull the engine. Just pull the bell housing and the prop shaft is right there. It will slide right out....see if it comes out in one piece or....a couple. :(

    Let us know what you find.


    Shamile

    Freeze...Miami Vice !
     
  8. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    19,949
    The Cold North
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    Tom
    Quite possible the main shaft ring nut on the pump side of the gear box has come loose. When this happends the entire mainshaft walks back an forth enough to allow the gear to hit the front side of the case. And it quite possible to do damage to the pump housing as well. Pull it apart.
     
  9. testamon

    testamon Formula Junior

    Aug 16, 2008
    346
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    Mike O
    Thanks guys I have not had time to get into the job yet, other things have come up, but will take your logical suggestions and work through the easy tasks first. Even if it is the drive shaft I would still have a problem with not at least checking the box after the metal has been in there. While I am at it then a new carrier will give some peace of mind. Will keep everyone updated-
     
  10. testamon

    testamon Formula Junior

    Aug 16, 2008
    346
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    Mike O
    Hi all- have dropped both axles off and turned the diff by hand and could not feel any problem with the transaxle. All looks good through the drain hole with the ring gear and no noises that I would associate with a carrier failure. So now I suspect the drive or quill shaft and have taken the rear most cover off the clutch housing cover and found that I need an F tool to undo the nut at the end of the quill shaft. If I undo this I am not convinced that the quill shaft is accessible- so should I drop the case that contains the gears at the rear of the clutch to confirm the shaft failure?
    I will still do the carrier with a Newman mod even if mine has not failled as I have thought long and hard of the other consequences of not doing the carrier!
     
  11. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    Dec 26, 2001
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    If its anything like a boxer you dont have to remove the transfer gear cover to get the bellhousing off. On the boxer the entire bellhousing slides off complete with undisturbed cover because the propeller shaft is not bolted to the lower transfer gear, its splined to it.
     
  12. testamon

    testamon Formula Junior

    Aug 16, 2008
    346
    Sydney
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    Mike O
    Yes it does look the same and I hopefully will get some time in the near future to remove the bell housing. This will confirm the problem if it is the shaft. The only thing that still puzzles me is the casing material in the oil. If the shaft is snapped my understanding is that both ends are well held and no other damage is usually caused. Also the price of the shaft ( 1500 used to 3800 new) makes your bearing carrier look like great value. I will still get a carrier, but the way things are going there is no great rush so can I put my name down for one of the next batch?
     
  13. testamon

    testamon Formula Junior

    Aug 16, 2008
    346
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    Mike O
    Had a chance to drop the bell housing off and sure enough the drive shaft had sheared. The shear was close to the forward splines and a piece about 2inches long and about half the thickness of the shaft was missing. Luckily I fished around with a magnet and found the piece with a few other small bits with it. I then had difficulty getting something to grab what little was left of the shaft to pull it out. Finally had success with a taperred bit of plastic electrical conduit, Only problem was as the splines and coupling came towards the exit all the weight of the part was on my plastic tube-- you guessed it dropped down into the bottom of the diff! Bugger. I spent about 4 hours yesterday trying to get it out via various methods but all failled and I ended up loosing a magnet down there as well.
    This am I had success with a strong Rare earth magnet and retrieved all the bits saving the process of dropping the engine out. I will post pictures soon..
     
  14. Shamile

    Shamile F1 Veteran

    Dec 31, 2002
    6,712
    Lakeland FL
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    Shamile
    Dear Ferraristi,



    yeah....who's yo daddy! :D


    ....pictures would be great to see! Please post them up...


    Shamile

    Freeze...Miami Vice !
     
  15. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 26, 2001
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    Newman
    Just take pics of yours, im sure its going to break soon. After all it is a Testarossa! :)
     
  16. testamon

    testamon Formula Junior

    Aug 16, 2008
    346
    Sydney
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    Mike O
    #16 testamon, Aug 4, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017

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