This race has been on for six years. Turn 13 has been there for six years. Michelin has been racing for a while. Michelin chose not to do high speed tests this year. Michelin failed. Michelin failed. Michelin failed. Not Ferrari, not FIA, not IMS. Then the Michelin teams forgot why F-1 exists-the fan. Can this be any clearer? Michelin's F-1 boss should be fired. His statement today that this was his most embarrassing moment won't do the fans any good. Michelin should be fined by the FIA. Michelin should reimburse every fan attending the race. And all 14 teams that did not participate today should be fined heavily and the drivers lose points.
Bottom line is that The FIA owed us a show. Everyone came to see 20 cars compete. A simple 10 grid penalty to all the Michelin runners would have sorted the problem out.
A) There is no legal reason Michelin should be fined. B) There is no legal reason why Michelin should reimburse fans. C) There is no legal reason why the 7 teams should lose points or be fined. Just like there was no *legal* reason for FIA or Ferrari to bend over backwards to accomodate the Michelin runners.
Bingo. The only action that will come out of this will be renegotiations among the 7 teams regarding the terms of their tire contracts. I'm not privy to the terms of the agreements, but I would imagine that there is a clause in them regarding Michelin's ability to supply a tire for the weekend...
True, but michelin just F*cked themselves in the american market. It's just ridiculous that a company that's been around for how many years (100?) to make such compromises. Leave it to the French... and i hate their F**KING CARS, ppl talk bad about american cars, you dont know french cars then(previous peugeot owner here)
I think that the underlying problem for not just today's mess, but the tire problems for BOTH Bridgestone and Michelin, is the incredibly idiotic restriction on tire changes during races. FOR OBVIOUS SAFETY REASONS, THE TEAMS SHOULD BE ABLE TO CHANGE TIRES ANY TIME THEY DAMN WELL WANT TO. If the rule is kept in force, someone - or a whole bunch of someones, is going to get killed. A driver, a corner worker, a fan . . . . Mark
Not all French cars suck or sucked. Like the 2CV (albeit eccentric), the Traction Avant (an all time favorite -- though underpowered, but really cool looking), and the MATRA 3 seater and the ALPINE A110 that my father owned. Mark Nerheim 246GTS #04456
So if the rules were strictly followed, why is anyone upset about it all? Shouldn't we all just say "ahhh, that's racing!" and leave it at that? People are upset because they wanted SOMETHING even considering the problems. Obviously Michelin didn't know this would happen or want it to happen. I'm sure they would have done anything and everthing to correct it had they had time. If you come home from work and see your garage has a small fire in it from a power strip that overheated, would you immediately call the power strip maufacturer and scream bloody murder while your house burns down or would you run in there and try to salvage the situation and keep your house from going up in smoke and call them to let 'em have it later on? There were 4 parties to this deal - FIA, Michelin, Ferrari and Michelin teams. There was a way they could have met in the middle SOMEHOW but they didn't. Shame for all the fans who got screwed. While people were so busy pointing the finger and screaming bloody murder, the house burned down. That's great, we found out who is technically at fault but we still let the house burn down. Bad idea for the greater good of F1 and F1 racing in the USA.
I personally believe the rules *should* have been broken/bent/thrown away. If only for PR reasons... However, the idiocy of saying Michelin should be fined? How could anyone with a brain support that. Fining them for not being able to create a suitable tire. Is there a clause in their contract which says the must be able to find a suitable tire? If yes, I'd think that's a discussion between the teams and the tire manufacturer.....not the FIA or the fans. Furthermore, the FIA fining them would be contradictory to their own goals. If they want Michelin to make a better tire then why on earth would they take money from them? Michelin has already shot itself in the foot, a fine does nothing except kick them while their down.
What is "idiocy" is to think that Michelin, and the 7 teams should not be penalized in any way. Michelin's Dupaquier admitted today they screwed up. Michelin chose not to do high speed tests, which they could have at England's Rockingham, instead of going to Silverstone. Michelin has contracts with F-1 to provide safe tires at every race this season, Michelin was warned in writing by Mosley about this, they instead "screwed up". Michelin violated their contract. Every F-1 team has contracts with F-1 to show up and race. They had the option to pit and change tires during the race. Better that position penalty than to show their greedy asses to the fans at IMS. Seven teams did not participate in the race, they violated their contracts. There is something called contract law. What is "idiocy" is to believe that no penalties, no fines should come out of this poor example of a complete lack of planning by supposedly professional race teams and a large maufacturerer that should have known better. If nothing happens, then F-1 admits they have no control over their participants, and if you ask BAR Honda, they have plenty of authority to levy penalties. I wiould bet that there will be fines, and I would hope points taken away from both teams and drivers. It is true "idiocy" to ignore the plight of the fans that attended the race, including the first time F-1 fan that bought my tickets. Michelin, and those 7 teams and 14 drivers must be penalized, or F-1 loses all of its control. It will be the start of the end. I don't think any of us wants that. Forget that one of your favorite teams was amongst the 7, consider the act of responsibility to fulfill your contractual obligations. Consider what these 7 teams said to the F-1 fans throughout the world. I would love to have seen Trulli or Fischy win this race, but now I find their actions to be a disgrace to all of motorsports. They had an option. Penalize or demise.
Mr. Payne, I suggest you take a course in contract law. Your insults towards me obviously show your lack of understanding of the issues. Michelin has the contractual obligatiion to provide a safe tire at every F-1 event. They were warned in writing by Max Mosley that they were not placing safety first in their tire development. They chose not to do any high speed testing prior to the USGP. Turn 13 has been the same since day 1. Obvious yet? DUH! Michelin "screwed up" to quote their boss Dupasquier. "Idiocy" best describes the thought process of anyone that does not understand contractual obligations. And let's not forget the obligation these teams have to their fans. Michelin and 7 F-1 teams demostrated the true meaning of "idiocy". As have you.
The bottom line for me is even though Michelin screwed up monumentally, Ferrari could have demanded a chicane or allowed a change of tires with no penalty. The FIA was simply acting as an agent for their benifit. Ferrari has a petulant little child attitude; we get what we want, or we will walk away from f1...and the FIA goes along. If Ferrari walks away, it's the end of F1 and of Max and Bernie's sources of income.... Kind of a big circle jerk, for the mutual benifit of Ferrari, Bernie, and Max
I think Michelin tried to strong arm the FIA into changing the rules, "we are not going to play if you don't play our way", I think they thought that the Bridgestone teams would wuss out in front of an angry crowd and force a change in the rules and restart the race. I am glad that it went the way it did. To be bullied into changing the rules because the manufacturer screwed up would have been worse. Yes people went to see a show, but it is supposed to be a sport and they can't willy nilly change the rules in the middle of the game. It would be like a basketball team to suggest moving the 3pt line in a few feet, because it's players can't hit them from there and treaten to not play. Good for the FIA, they so rarely do anything right, but keeping the integrity of competition is priority one, safety is up to the manufacturer and suppliers. If it was un-safe, I am glad they did not race, but I suspect it was not as bad as they claim. They just thought they could force a rule change to make them more competitive with a protest and it didn't work.
It is amazing, I saw 7 teams do exaclty that "play my way or I am going to take my ball and go home" none of which were named Ferrari. All of the rules changes in the last 4 years have been to slow Ferrari down, not once has Ferrari protested. They pulled MS out of one race this year because of a safety issue due to tires, I didn't see them ask the other 2 bridgestone teams to pull out as well.
And exactly why would Ferrari demand as you put it to penalize itself and the other Bridgestone teams for Michelin dropping the ball big time ? Even if Ferrari demanded it it doesnt mean the FIA would have allowed it. Those 7 teams BTW chose not to race. They could have raced with the disadvantage they had but Michelin wanted everybody to have the same disadvantage their teams had. Rules are not made to be changed or compromised 30 mins before a race. Like I wrote in another thread, Ferrari and Bridgestone would have been laughed back to Italy if they were the ones with tire problems and wanted the changes in rules or circuit changed to accomodate them.
My solution would have made EVERYONE happy. Leave the normal drive line alone, but add a chicane for those who choose to demand their drivers use it. Problem solved, everyone happy.
I think Peter Windsor was right. Michelin and it's teams made proposals they knew the FIA would never accept so they would have someone to blame besides themselves. There is a lot of politicking involved in this that is not readily apparent. They should have raced, pitted, put on new tires and went on. That was the best option available. I wish I could boycott Michelin over this, but I've been boycotting Frnech products for years already. Dave
As for this year, Michelin was told on June 1 to get it's chit together. They didn't. As for later years... ______ Rule changes for 2008 - single tire/tyre supplier. Wheels and Tyres Tyres will be supplied by one manufacturer appointed by the FIA after an invitation to tender. Such an appointment will be conditional upon: # A suitable supplier being available # A suitable system to ensure tyre testing is carried out in an equitable manner # No team being disadvantaged by the appointment of a single supplier (detailed regulations will be written to ensure this would not be the case) # There being no legal impediments during the process of appointing a supplier # Slick tyres will be introduced for use in dry weather # Lower profile tyres will be introduced # Significantly larger wheels with minimum and maximum sizes stipulated for front and rear will be permitted # Tyre blankets and other heating devices will be prohibited # All tyre regulations will reside in the Technical Regulations Reasons # A single supplier would allow a bigger safety margin # The absence of competitive tyre testing would reduce costs # As relatively small differences in tyre compound and construction can have a significant effect on lap times, a single tyre supplier would simply ensure that no team would be adversely affected by being contracted to the wrong supplier # Slick tyres would be re-introduced as a part of the low-downforce and high-mechanical-grip package # Lower profile tyres would be introduced in order to give the wheels and tyres a more modern look and also permit more freedom on brakes and suspension # A ban on tyre heating devices would eliminate this significant but unnecessary expenditure
Not exactlly, those 7 team exited to the formation lap. That enabled the event so Ferrari could score. If they would had chose no to even exit the pits the event would be effectively canceled. If they were playing that "play my way or I am going to take my ball and go home" they would not exited the pits and Ferrari would not have scored any points either. - Julio.
The rules would have to be bent to accomodate this late request to allow the change in tires. The rules have been published for some time, I don't agree with a lot of the rule changes that have been instituted this year, but those are the rules. If they had a better tire, why didn't they bring it out in the first place? Could it be because they hoped that they could get by with the tires that would be more competitive and less safe. IMO, it's quite simple, Michelin blew it! Bill
I am not arguing the point, because I have no knowledge otherwise, but I would like to see where in the rules it states that they will not start the race if all 20 cars don't do the formation lap. I also sincerly doubt the 7 teams were doing Ferrari a favor and handing them points out of the goodness of their hearts. I believe the race would have gone on if they had never taken the grid, I could be wrong, but boy what a stretch to blame Ferrari for this. I saw 7 teams pull into the pits and refuse to race because they did not get their way, maybe they did a formation lap to ensure a race start (but I doubt it), but they still had an option of pulling off line and going slower in turn 13, that is why we have a blue flag, to let that driver know to let a faster car go by safely. Seems to be a bunch of crybabies trying to shift blame any way they can.
I don't see how this can be anything other than an R&D issue. Michelin must have boat loads of data to show speed, g loadings, rpm, downforce, etc.... Their R&D must have a rolling road/ test drum where these conditions could be tested in a lab. It looks like they forgot about the turn while developing a tire for all the other events.
