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mid engine corvette qtr panels leaked photo

Discussion in 'American Muscle' started by darkkaangel, Jul 30, 2017.

  1. jimmyb

    jimmyb Formula Junior

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    ^^^^
    The ONLY way a C6 Z06 was "superlative" was weight (your personal obsession). It was a devilishly difficult car to drive fast (especially early vintages) because Chevrolet went TOO far with making it "neutral". Go back and look at Car and Driver's first test of the car....it scared them silly on the track. Later cars had different spring rates/bars to tame it (this is well documented). Add to that, the LS7's valve guide problem (well documented), the shockingly bad interior (well documented), and it's an amazing stretch to call the C6 Z06 "superlative".

    I agree that weight is important, but using it as your ONLY metric is not correct. Your assessment of the C6 Z06 proves that. "Superlative" cars don't blow engines on a whim, have seat backs that fly forward on hard braking, etc....
     
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  2. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 World Champ
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    One local guy had a lovely Cyber Blue Z06 Corvette maybe 2011 can't remember the year. The car was very clean and never saw any winter driving. The owner's son drove that Z06 and totaled the car in a single car vehicle accident. Another bad car was the Viper; one local journalist lost his life driving a Viper on the street. Again another single car vehicle accident to.
    Hopefully new C8 drivers will look on understeer as their friend...
     
  3. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    #3328 boxerman, Oct 27, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2019
    Yes the C6 z06 it has many faults, some endemic to just how GM is.

    But what made it superlative is it was that had a single minded focus and executed it as well as possible given the limitations they had to work with.
    A z06 is supposed to be the trackable vette, therefore weight and other details were crucial, as you say weight is not the only factor, but excess weight is iredeemable.

    There was single minded effort to reduce weight on the C8 z06 and more. While the LS7 had a number of issues besides valve guides, crap rod ratios to name one, it was also a nth degree effort given what they were working with. Prior to the Ls7 no one thought 427 cubes could be reliably wrought by an oem from a SBC, There were lots of neat features to make it work, titanium con rods etc, but yes maybe it wouldnt last too long.

    Cars built with a single minded focus are usualy superlative and become classics.

    Ill contrast this with the C7 z06, which was the cheap lazy option, no bespoke engine developed, so we got lots and lots of weight to contain a heavier supercharged motor and attendant cooling, plus the whole platform was heavier, and in track enviroment, as they say in texas "that dog dont hunt". Had Gm not been cheap and lazy we might have had something like the Gs but with 550 na hp and less weight, that would have been serious.

    Yes most dont go to the track, but to the extent sportscar manufactuers like to hang a hat on track prowess, to the extent that the chattering minions like to quote stats acheived on track, then make a real track capable car not a one lap wonder.

    The C8 so far, theres that old line about a Jack of all trades and a master of none. So lets see what they do with a zo6, is it another cynical badge enginered job like the C7 z06 or something really serious like the C6 Z06. We read there will be a 5.4 flat plane crank quad cam mtoor, which sounds potentialy great. Now lests ee if they can really reduce weight, add stiffness, and get the steering and braking dynamics right. Is the platform capable of this, and will Gm let them. Usualy Gm mages to f-up a good thing.

    What I see in terms of vettes on track, where people have spent their won money, is mostly C6's because they were light enough and had development potential, and pretty much only the ocasional Gs. That may be budget, but theres lots of people out there who have near unlimited budgets, they buy what works.

    If the target was a porche Turbo, they well may have suceeded with the C8 in terms of luxury weight acceleration and street dynamics, if the target was also a Gt3, based on what we see so far they have a long long long way to go.
    Im pretty sure for one lap a porche turbo on a big track will be faster than a Gt3, after the first lap though its all over. Or put another way, on paper the Gt3 is not porches fastest car, but for those who track their car the Gt3 is the one to go for (unbless you have a rare Gt2) and perhaps you have to have lived on track with a car to understand why. The Gt3 is also probably the most fun porche to drive once off the highway or strip. So if vette is serious lets see one of those, the last time they came close was with the C6 z06, before then you have to go back to the C2..

    Its not just weight, its a whole host of many details. As you point out, between valve guides seats etc. The C6 had some endemic flaws, but thats Gm not the vette team talent, so lets hope this time they have been allowed to get ti right.
     
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  4. TheMayor

    TheMayor Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    To me the big question about the C8 is reliability. Let's face it, even Porsche has its issues.

    That being said -- if ANYONE can build a reliable OHV V8 that lasts its surly Chevy. Yes, this has some new bells and whistles but they are the experts. The body is nothing new for them. The suspension is nothing new for them. The interiors are being made made by the same guys supplying McLaren, as is the Convertible hard top. The infotainment system is standard GM.

    The only real question is the Tremec DCT 8 speed, but this is not their first rodeo. The brakes are a little funky too which could cause issues. But the rest of the car is just GM which is why its so cheap.

    If the gearbox holds up and the car is reliable, I can see a lot of Porsche buyers wanting to look at it.
     
  5. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    I dont see many porche buyers wanting to buy at it, maybe some cayman boxter peopel.

    Maclren interiors is not advertsiement. Im sure the quad cam motor and DCT will be reilaible. But if youre talking porche does it drive like an extension of your body, apparetently not, does it feel a precsion weapon, probably not. Does it feel all of a piece carved from granite, questionable. And then we have the coments about the steeriing and brakes. WTF even a honda civic type R gets that stuff right. So maybe its classic Gm and in a year or two or three they will reprogram the eps retune the suspension and work out the brake by wire, then maybe its a contender for porches, but it will still look overworught. So maybe the redo in 4 or 5 years.

    meanwhile lest hope they can get the z06 right,
     
  6. TheMayor

    TheMayor Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    I didn't mention they also supply the interiors for BUGATTI. :)
     
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  7. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    Yeah Bugatti much better.
    Was looking at some new Mclarens on the weekend incuding the Senna, frankly the interiors seemed a little flimsy, albeit lightweight.
    I think the interior is also a function of the cost a manufacturer is prepared to pay and of course design.
    So far we read that the interior quality of the new vette is great and as my mclaren coment indicates not everyone else has a great interior.

    Ill reserve judgement on the vette interior layout till I see one in the flesh, but nothing wrong with doing funky anyway as long as the quality is there, which by sportscar standards Im assuming the vette is now there.

    For me on an interiror as long as the seat is right, the driver orientation to the controlls correct and the controll feel/feedback acuurate Ill look the other way on whole host of foibles, after all I volontarily bought two new lotus. The thing is in the 21st century if Kia can get eps right and everyone knows what to do, theres no excuse not to make a great driving car, and thats where porche gets it right, plus a feeling of quality. BTW never owned a porche, i just admire their execution.
     
  8. F456 V12

    F456 V12 F1 Rookie
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    Same company - Faurecia - also makes the interior for Ferrari. I have not seen a C8 in the flesh, looking forward to it in the near future.

    MB

    https://www.corvetteblogger.com/2019/08/22/video-french-company-faurecia-makes-the-interiors-for-bugatti-ferrari-and-now-the-c8-corvette/
     
  9. Edward 96GTS

    Edward 96GTS F1 Rookie
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    what is the cost to upgrade the red leather without upgrading the seats? i prefer the standard seats with adrenaline red on the seats, doors and console.
    tia
     
  10. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    Interesting question. I find on many cars to get the options you want, you have to buy a bundled package of crap you dont want.
     
  11. energy88

    energy88 F1 World Champ
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    Lexus has this ploy down to a science. :( Even if you want to special order to minimize the crap, the wait time is 3-4 months! That represents 1/3 year of depreciation without a vehicle to show for it.
     
  12. TheMayor

    TheMayor Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Its actually worse with the Vette. If you want Magnaride you have to order the $5000 Z51 package but you are stuck with the ugly wing. The 2LT package has things like power mirrors, more speakers, and HUD which you probably would not pay extra for normally. They really load up the 2LT package to get most people to order it and then limit severely what comes with the 1LT with almost no options available.
     
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  13. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    I saw some of that with the website, apart from the ridiculous nomenclature 1lt what does that even mean, you have to get things liem cross traffic alert etc if you wnat the good seats, z51 etc.

    Its like the mandatory sunroof on may cars if you want good headlights or leather.
    My guess is the cost of these options to a manufactuerer is minimal so by making mandatory bundles it seems like youre getting something for you extra 5k. Either that or theyre just stupid(a GM specialty) or lazy.

    No way to order the good seats, good stereo and good headlights on most cars without another extra 5k of crap you'd really rather not have.

    I know some say that al acarte is really expensive in terms of production planning, but if theyre going to mandate bundles, at least have them not be so lame.
     
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  14. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Rookie
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    Great point with the sunroof. I'd pay extra to not have it but seems like most cars its mandatory with the upgraded interior.
     
  15. jimmyb

    jimmyb Formula Junior

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    Here you go...the "enthusiast" C8

    C8 Coupe 1LT: $59,995
    Z51: $5,000
    Mag ride: $1,795
    Comp seats: $1,995 (including Textile seat covering and $595 forced sueded steering wheel)

    Total: $69,480
    There's the most track capable (and lightest) C8 you can order.
     
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  16. TheMayor

    TheMayor Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Just got an Email from Mike Furman at Criswell.

    There are about 600 more C7's that need to be built before they change over to the C8. He expects those to be done by mid November. Then about 2 months to change over the factory to C8 production, not including the holiday break.

    He says not to expect any first deliveries until perhaps late March. He claims to have "plenty" of 2020 allocations left to sell.
     
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  17. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 World Champ
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    I think they will be building the C8 by mid December.
     
  18. Donatella

    Donatella Karting

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    Per Chevrolet, 2/3/20 is the first week of production..
     
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  19. TheMayor

    TheMayor Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    That was the plan but the strike moved it 2 months.
     
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  20. energy88

    energy88 F1 World Champ
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  21. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 World Champ
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    Maybe 2020 will be the forgotten year for Corvettes just like 1983 was. :D
    After the 1969 strike they called the new Corvettes 1970 1/2 cars.
     
  22. TheMayor

    TheMayor Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Technically 2021 production begins in August of 2020. So they will have about 6 months of production of 2020 Vettes.

    IMO, they will make it up with a second shift. They are importing workers from other factories to move to BG and training them. Some of these will not be permanent at BG, which does have a wide fluctuation of demand given its only product is the Vette.
     
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  23. energy88

    energy88 F1 World Champ
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    If they are paying moving expenses for relocated workers, then it may be another indicator of a later Caddy version down the road.
     
  24. TheMayor

    TheMayor Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    I think the Caddy version is dead. What they appear to be doing is training a more mobile workforce to move between factories as demand goes up or down. Not everyone can do it but there's some that like the work and incentives from GM.
     

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