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mid engine corvette qtr panels leaked photo

Discussion in 'American Muscle' started by darkkaangel, Jul 30, 2017.

  1. TheMayor

    TheMayor Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    This time I'm not buying in the first year if I buy. A mistake I made last time.

    Somehow the lack of a manual on this car bothers me. I wish the Alfa had one but for some reason, it bothers me less than the idea of a Vette not coming with one. I mean, they made like 2000 Alfa 4c's a year. They'll make 32,000 Vettes a year and probably sell like 150K of them in their life cycle. Its not the same as a small manufacturer. Its GM for heaven's sake.

    Actually I like taking the Alfa cross country. Its a real adventure squeezing stuff in!
     
  2. dwhite

    dwhite F1 Rookie

    If they trully are not going to offer a manual trans, it is just pathetic.

    I get they are trying to appeal to . . . . . .


    everyone, but man offer the car in a manual trans. Thank god for Porsche.
     
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  3. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    Yeah it took porche a few years but then They figured it out, those that want a more hard core road drive experience whant a manual.

    In reality the performance delta between a stock and a paddle is not relevant for any road driving and yes paddles are quicker on track if you’re good enough.
     
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  4. jimmyb

    jimmyb Formula Junior

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    The lack of a manual (if that comes to pass) is sad, but in the end, it's US (the customers) that made the decision, not the maker. Why are there no 3 pedal Ferraris? Because less than 10% were being ordered with manuals.
    The manual Corvette supporters point out that even now, 20% of Corvettes are ordered with manuals. I would offer that this is more an indictment of the GM 8 speed automatic than anything else. I wonder what the take rate on manuals would have been if the C7 was offered from day one with a 7 speed manual OR a 7 speed DCT????
     
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  5. xotik

    xotik Formula Junior

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    For me, its simply the driving experience that makes me check the box for a manual transmission. I couldn't care less about being a tenth of a second quicker with an automatic, I want the experience of actually driving the car. My 6 speed C6 is just fun to drive, but not so much with an automatic.

    Of course, I do realize that I am the minority in that line of thought...
     
  6. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    Whats the manual take rate on a GS or Z06, ill bet its way higher than the vette average.
    That 80% of evttes came with as you imply a sub par auto box speaks volumes about the majority of vette buyers.
    Clearly though there is a hard core who prefer a manual.
     
  7. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    Yes but there were enough manual buyers for porche to bring it back on the Gt3 and only offer it on the gt4.
    Somehow maybe Chev is building last decades car, heavy and very powerful, paddles only.
     
  8. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 World Champ
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    that actually sounds like the new Ferrari BB... :)
     
  9. jimmyb

    jimmyb Formula Junior

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    Well, you're not thinking this though...
    I spoke last night with a good friend who tracks a previous gen GT3 (the gen that was PDK only). He retired from a huge dealer network based here in Charlotte (with MANY Porsche stores across the country). He told me that take rate on the new GT3 is 45% manual, although Porsche feels that is high and once the guys that were MAD about NO manual get their cars, the take rate will settle in around 25% manual/75% PDK.
    Here are Corvette stats for 2017 MY, I used 2017 because 2018 was a shortened MY of only 6 months, and 2019 is still going so there are not ZR1 stats yet.

    2017 Corvette: 32,272 cars produced
    Stingray Coupe: 11,253 produced, 8,927 were automatics 79.2%
    Stingray Conv.: 2,298 produced, 2,068 were automatics 89.9%
    GS Coupe: 9,912 produced, 7,685 were automatics 77.5%
    GS Conv.: 2,246 produced, 1,723 were automatics 76.7%
    Z06 Coupe: 6,197 produced, 4,297 were automatics 69.3%
    Z06 Conv.: 1,076 produced, 856 were automatics 79.5%
    Overall automatics were 77.9 %

    And I still can't figure out how YOU know the C8 is "heavy"????
    Car and Driver threw out 3,600 pounds, no one else has joined them in that guess, and final stats have, obviously, not been released. Have you told yourself (and us) so many times that the car will be heavy that now it's true???
    Listen, I get it, you're not a Corvette fan, but for those of that are, how about waiting for the reveal instead of making these never ending negative proclamations about stats, looks, etc when you don't KNOW. It may be horrible. It may be great. What WE know is that we don't KNOW but will in less than 3 months.
     
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  10. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
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    I read that 62% of C6 production excluding the ZR1 and Z06 were ordered with paddle shifts autos. Food for thought. Dont know the C7 numbers as they were out of my 2nd fun car price range.


    And........ i Just posted and saw JimmyB's post !!! :) :)
     
  11. TheMayor

    TheMayor Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Here is the problem.

    I got a manual convertible but I had to order it. Basically IMPOSSIBLE to get from a dealer. Dealers had very few and those they did were on the low end of the package, which convertibles were not. In addition, in the second year the C7 came with the new Auto 8 box to replace the original slush box. It worked closer to a DCT so it was a decent replacement for the old box. So, dealers ordered even fewer manuals as 2018 and 2019 models.

    My understanding is that it dropped to less than 20% of overall C7 production and that right now, its just about impossible to find a new manual on a dealer lot. The fewer ordered by dealers the fewer get made and and fewer they order. A reflection of the market but also a self fulfilling prophecy.
     
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  12. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
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    I get your point, I do. But I looked hard for, and found a Z51 3LT with the paddle shift because I have port traffic, airport traffic and 47 year old knees and dont want a manual anymore if there is a choice. Many of the Vette buyers are a bit older than me, and all of that power on public roads is alot to handle.

    Insurance on my C6 was $400 for a year with Hagerty. the cars have a great safety rating and insurance rating because older male drivers have less accidents I guess? My 91 MR2 insurance was TWICE the C6 vette.
     
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  13. TheMayor

    TheMayor Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    I think we can assume a few things

    We know its using a steel frame, not CF. And its coming from the same assembly line with most likely the same type of assembly methods
    We can pretty much assume its not going to cost much more than the C7. That means, not much on the exotic material end
    We know its going to be a GT. Its not going to be a small car. It going to hold 2 golf bags, have lots of stuff like fancy electronics and screens and heated and cooled seats and T top roof, etc. None of that means its working to be a lightweight.

    I think GM's goal is better handling for their existing engine package but not necessarily to lower the weight. That would be a pretty good assumption based on the above.

    It may not be "heavy" (whatever that is) but its not designed to be a light car either.
     
  14. TheMayor

    TheMayor Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Demographics for all 2 seat sports cars is rising in age. Younger people want sport SUV's. People with enough money to spend $70 to $300 grand on a two seat car are getting older and older -- which means more and more GT's rather than hard core sports cars.
     
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  15. randkin

    randkin Formula 3

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    From a dealers point of view it makes no sense to order MT Vetts if it only appeals to 20-25% of the market because then guessing what color and option package the ‘hard core” MT owners want. It does make sense for the hard core MT folks to order and spec exactly what they want. That way the dealer is not flooring a MT car that most buyers don’t want. That is the same reason most dealers order cars colors that are white, black, grey or silver. That is what they can easily sell or trade between dealers. It you want something our of the mainstream you should want to spec the car yourself. IMO
     
  16. dwhite

    dwhite F1 Rookie

    #2216 dwhite, Apr 19, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2019
    So what is the general consensus on heavy today. Over 3800 lbs wet?

    Sports cars IMO are grotesquely heavy today compared to nimble sports cars of the past. I know cars today handle better, but they just aren't fun.

    Cripes, I drove my '69 TVR for 32 years. It was under 1700 lbs. Back then heavy was 2800 lbs.
     
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  17. jimmyb

    jimmyb Formula Junior

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    Where did you read that the C8 is a steel frame? All C7's were aluminum frames.
    And Corvettes haven't had "T-tops" since the 1982 C3.
    And Bowling Green Assembly was re-done to the tune of $800 MILLION dollars one year ago.
    Beyond that, your assumptions are....assumptions
     
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  18. TheMayor

    TheMayor Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    I'm sorry. I meant Aluminum. My mistake but it was an honest one.

    Yes, Bowling green was redone but they are not doing exotic stuff. You can see that from the leaked drawings.
     
  19. Eric R

    Eric R Formula Junior

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    I have loved Corvettes since I was born. I have owned six late models from 91 up. I will not buy a C8 or C9 or C10 if I cannot get a stick. I guess I am done with new Corvettes. We are at a point that performance is overblown. No one can extract the performance of any of these cars today even on track. You lack the skill unless your a PRO. I am not after bragging rights because you never truly have any. Something is always better in some area. Plus I have gotten anti-tech in my cars. I know I am not an influencer for Chevy but I will not be back. I would rather spend money on a restored/resto modded 67 than get a new one any day. Take my $200k and it will be way better and far more appreciated than ANY C8 they come out with.
     
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  20. jimmyb

    jimmyb Formula Junior

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    ^^^^
    What's exotic? Carbon Fiber tub? That was never going to happen and EVERYONE (except you, I guess) knew it. My point through this entire gestation is let's see what they come up with. It could be spectacular. It could be junk. I don't know and every time one of you guys makes these proclamations (steel frame/T-tops/etc) that are flat WRONG and then say: "Oops, my bad" only because you were corrected, it starts the mind numbing prognostications of people who aren't going to buy the thing or even consider buying the thing anyway. Just that lack of imagination herd mentality. So, if the car sucks, you all get to crow "I told you so", no doubt if it is spectacular, I doubt any crow will be served. In the end, for a minority here, it's not going to matter whether it's good or not. It's a GM car and the cool guys just don't buy GM cars.
    I just sold my 5 year old C7 convertible. It was and is a wonderful car. Fast, reliable, great handling, a car that OVERDELIVERS. It is a SPORTS car with amazingly large "bandwidth". Kind of like another very popular sports car, the Porsche 911. These 2 cars stand alone in the sheer number of things they do VERY WELL. And history is LITTERED with deceased sports cars that would not or could not match the Corvette/911 for their amazingly well rounded natures. It's up to the customer to pick which compromises they can live with and which they can't. This thread is about the C8 Corvette. Railing about a car that NO ONE has seen/driven is plain crazy. I don't go on the "Other Italian" forum here and slam the 4C for it's laundry list of issues and compromises, which are way more numerous than a C7.
     
  21. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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  22. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    Cool, thanks for the stats. I think as others have said the auto box is not the best in the C7, certainly not as good as a twin clutch box, yet the takeup rate is still really high, which imo speaks volumes about where the volume vette buyer places priorities. Im sure for this 79% of people the Me car will work out just great.

    I agree the GT3 manual takeup rate may well diminish to 25%, but even then apprently its worth it for porche, both for buisness and as part of their drivers image halo product.

    As to the new vette, maybe Im wrong, but we have read its going to be heavier than the C7 and the C7 was heavier than the C6 which was heavier than the C5.
    On the styling I seem to be the only one who likes the side scoops, and I think the C8R (which I know is not the street car) looks fantastic. I can think of more than one of the very vette faithful here who have crtiques the Me styling we see so far, as not being anywhere near as origional as say the C2, and therefore a miss. I have said on this thread multiple times make my one look like the C8r and if weight is down around 3000lbs thats a killer app for me, I dig the F35 stealth fighter look of the Me car, and BTW I think the C7 blew the F12 away stylisticaly... Maybe version 2.0 will be like the C8r and lighter, or maybe the platform is too heavy who knows. As for speculation we have near on 90 pages of this here, including many of the faithful saying there is no evidence that there will be a Me vette when clearly there was.

    Its a car, not any of our chilldren, lets not be too sensitive. Gm has ample history of messing things up, and this Me vette simply because it is Me is going to be a prophetic about Gm as anything they have done.

    Yeah after 3 fe vettes I'm not a vette guy, i also yse my sportscars very differetly to when i was younger and road only.. I respect the performance and what they have accoomplished. I lament the somewhat twisty frame, the general lack of precision feel behind the wheel, and yes the interior is now ok, but just ok. I am patriotic as the next person, probably more so. But its patriotic to level valid criticism, not whitewash.

    Much as I admire porche, I've never owned one, and dont really see one in my future, well maybe if they make a Gt4 with a real Gt3 motor. Porche knows their market, they have multiple iterations of 911 for all tastes, from targa Gts to Gt3's. Its their product focus in the sportscar realm I admire. GM would do well to emulate the same with the vette. In some ways between the stingray, Gs ,Z06 and ZR1 they have, but Imo to be serious you need the vette version of the Gt3. Maybe the C6 z06 came close, but then they abandoned the space.

    I had thought that the alfa 4c woudl be the holy grail, but to me it was a damp squib, not light enough or pwerful enough and too hard riding to cover for bendy struts.

    Possibly the Vette will be a great drive, or possibly it will be a techno wonder electronic car more towards the ne NSX schooll of though.
     
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  23. TheMayor

    TheMayor Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    I had a C7 convertible. Traded it for a 4c.

    They are apples and oranges but the 4c is a real sports car (complete with a laundry list of issues) while the Vette is a GT. That is why they are apples and oranges and difficult to compare. Putting in a heated and ventilated seats, a motorized touch screen, a HUD, OnStar, Climate control, a cylinder deactivation system, etc etc is the exact opposite of what a 4c is about.

    I'm not railing against the C8. In fact it interests me. But I don't see what the harm is in discussing what might be or might not be and what we know so far. Is the C8 so thin skinned it gets upset and won't come out of its camouflage?

    BTW you are welcome to go and bash the 4c. Its a car forum. We talk about cars. AND most of us who own a 4c would probably agree with you! :)
     
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  24. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    CF is not a must. An elsie which is aluminum weights less than a CF 4c. The new ferrari turbino or whatever its called weights more or less the same as the CF mcalren.

    You Vette/911 anology is apt. They both have wide bandwith. Whats intereting is that the 911 bandwith off one platform is huge from the GT3 through targa to turbo. The Vette if we use the C7 as an example starts at 911 targa and goes through to 911turbo, missing out on Gt3 which is in the other more serious driving direction.

    Nothing uncool about owning a Gm car, actualy its cooler to have a car without snob value. But Gm has plenty of misses and flaws as a company, so were all a little aprehensive when they start on the vette. Not that the vette team dont know what theyre doing, because thyere as good as any in the buisness, but there is ample evidence of the vette being crimped by Gm corporate.

    Frankly if they sell 20-40k units thats really sucessful, and if some of the hard core pople like myself dont like it so what, sales are sales. Still they can do a car platfrom that covers all the bases as porche does. Not sure they will, which would be a pity. Beacause if I could buy a Me vette that looks like the C8R and weights down around 3000lbs with the rumored 650 hp quad cam V8 sign me up, that is a killer app. Would a Mcalren 720 be faster on paper, maybe but so what, my ideal spec vette is already more than is reasonable/needed etc. Im sure the vette team can build such a car.

    Im also sure ver1.0 will not be the best, and if were patient we may see some truly killer vettes. Or maybe its just too big and heavy therefore irredeemable. We'll know soon.
     
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  25. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    I agree with much of what you say. To me paddles are not a deal breaker, because what i wnat in a vette is car that works on track. True theres much more than paddles to make a car that works on track, and new vette would need a lot of those other attributes.

    As we know most vette buyers are cruisers, and drive in traffic, for them paddles will be ideal. I somehow doubt well see a manual, and yes for the road the car will miss much for a joyous drive on road without manual. We like to drive, to operate the machine, do do our own thinking, to control the mechanism, thats the joy, not in having it done for you.
     
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