I know this happened last year, but I just saw this video. Its as interesting as it is disturbing ( especially knowing the out come). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvzkXbKkjP4 What seems clear to me is how busy everyone was, whether it was the controller or the pilots, and how easy it is to miss something or some one. Sounds like everyone could see and hear each other but just didn't take the time to re-confirm positions. In my own experience I am shocked at how many times ( most in fact ) that I cannot find/see traffic that is being pointed out to me by both ATC and the G1000 traffic alert system. No idea why the military spend millions designing camouflage schemes, just paint it like a Cessna, and it will never be seen. Curious how other pilots do it but once I've spotted traffic, I check it every few seconds until there is no chance of conflict.. especially in the busy airspace around LA
Generally speaking, I think pilots rely on the tower to maintain safe separation. They lose track of people, it happens. Did this tower have radar?
Eagle 1 on his initial call stated he had traffic left and right in sight, with the right presumably the other accident aircraft. Seems the tower forgot about the Cessna until right before contact. Cessna was never given any indication that there was traffic, and since Eagle 1 was behind him no way to know he had a fast mover overtaking and then turning into him.
Katheryn's Report Kathryn's Report: Cessna 172M Skyhawk, N1285U and Rockwell Sabreliner 60SC, N442RM: Fatal accident occurred August 16, 2015 near Brown Field Municipal Airport (KSDM), San Diego, California
Thanks for that , good read. I would ask two questions from that, ( and I don't know Brown Field) but 1/ two parallel runways both doing right traffic ??? and 2/ with one controller in charge of both ???... I fly into a few airports with parallel runways and they have opposing traffic patterns, and the busiest of which (KVNY) when traffic determines run a controller for each... If everyone had to do right traffic for 16R and 16L at Van Nuys it would turn into a **** show real quick
Brown Field is a stone's throw (maybe a mile) north of the Mexican border and the Tijuana airport. Immediately to the west, along the coast, is Imperial Beach Naval Base where we do helo flight training. So you've got commercial, civilian, foreign, military, and border patrol aircraft all flying in and around a narrow corridor. It is very congested to say the least. Add to that the haze, frequent marine layer, and desert terrain, you get the idea. My scariest moments at IB are not student pilots in the pattern, but civilian pilots blowing through !!
Thanks for that, I thought I read something about Brown being close to the Mexican boarder. Still I think a tight left pattern for the left side would be more suited, I would imagine a mile is enough to do it, but what do I know. The left pattern for 16L at VNY has to be flown pretty tight as you are under the class Charlie for Burbank, right next to the airspace for Whiteman and in between that they have to fit all the transition traffic between west LA/Santa Monica and the Newhall pass.. I've been #7 on the downwind in that pattern before...Keeps you on your toes
there are 2 more simulation videos of the cockpit views of each plane in the youtube link..interesting to watch from the cockpit perspective...
I agree, I can't understand the traffic pattern setup for that field and the courses that the two aircraft followed. The Cessna was correctly in the traffic pattern and the other should have never have entered traffic on the base leg. It should always be on the 45 deg. to the downwind leg. Perhaps I'm going too far back in my flying days. I realize that everybody was under the control of the over-worked LC but I wonder why somebody didn't see a pending collision if they were on the same altitude. I have been in similar situations where I had to dump the aircraft to avoid another.
It would be for small private aircraft, but not for something like a Citation. Plus, the TJ airport is literally right along the boarder.
Seems logical I guess, again from my limited experience at VNY anyone working the pattern usually gets pushed of to left traffic for 16 L and all the big stuff comes straight in from the north or does right base from the west for 16R, and tower always has you confirm "traffic in site" before giving a landing clearance... Of course having spouted my mouth off about left/right traffic patterns......, at KWHP today the tower had traffic in left and right ( inbound from out of area) patterns for the same runway, difference being, one runway, one controller.... lots of extending the downwind and can you make a short base/final requests... of course the WHP tower is honoree as all get go and has no problem telling you off on frequency. So when he asks you "why you all the way out there" you don't tell him "that's because you told me to do so"..... I did once....just once though
