Mille Miglia anyone ? | FerrariChat

Mille Miglia anyone ?

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by 3wings, Feb 2, 2009.

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  1. 3wings

    3wings Karting

    Apr 7, 2008
    139
    South Africa
    Full Name:
    Mike
    #1 3wings, Feb 2, 2009
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2009
    There has been a lot of discussion on this board about 'the rich & famous' who have owned the 365 GT4 2+2/400/412 series in the past, so although this post is a bit OT I think I can justify it when I say that Prince Berhard of the Netherlands, Ferrari enthusiast that he was, owned one of the very first 365 GT4 2+2's off the production line.
    Of course that wasn't his first Ferrari, nor his last.
    Twenty years earlier, in 1953, he bought a brand new 212 Inter Coupe Pinin Farina and, according to legend, he had specially ordered the V12 powerhouse to be souped up a little just in case some lesser mortal felt like taking him on at the traffic lights !
    Next week, at a special auction in Paris, Prince Bernhard's old 212 will come under the hammer, and by all accounts the car is in almost pristine condition.
    It isn't everyday that the opportunity comes up to acquire the sort of car that would be almost immediately eligible to enter the world famous Mille Miglia race in Brescia, Italy. And of course cars that compete and complete the race have an added value to collectors around the world.
    This car won't be cheap, $500,000 at the least, but for those wanting a truly amazing piece of Ferrari history, check out this link:
    http://www.artcurial.com/en/asp/fullcatalogue.asp?salelot=1605++++++27+&refno=10254557&image=2

    Sadly, I won't be bidding.
     
  2. aidanparte

    aidanparte Formula 3

    Jul 18, 2004
    1,231
    There is a picture of Prince Berhard's green 400iA in the latest Forza magazine.

    Aidan
     
  3. MordaloMVD

    MordaloMVD F1 Rookie

    Sep 7, 2005
    4,222
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    Michael von Ditter
    I am betting more in the $2mil range.
     
  4. ArtS

    ArtS F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Nov 11, 2003
    13,401
    Central NJ
    Mike,

    Dr. Dan Reese, one of the guys that posts in vintage and on Tom Yang's site owns the prince's 330 GT 2+2, which is also green. If you poke around, there are some great pictures of it.

    Regards,

    Art S.
     
  5. Cavallino Aficionado

    Oct 3, 2006
    2,016
    Lk. Tapps/Buckley WA
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    Brian
    +1, It'll fetch cash just for what it is let alone the historic value.
     
  6. ArtS

    ArtS F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Nov 11, 2003
    13,401
    Central NJ
    Personally, I'll be surprised if the 212 clears $350K.

    Regards,

    Art S.
     
  7. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    Ditto.
     
  8. 3wings

    3wings Karting

    Apr 7, 2008
    139
    South Africa
    Full Name:
    Mike

    I firmly believe that there is a helluva lot of money out there just waiting for the opportunity to acquire the sort of prestigious clout that such a perfect combination of marque, model and provenance can offer.
    For those who dream of competing in the Mille Miglia, restricted to cars made between 1927-57, then a vintage Italian exotic is not only the way to go, but possibly the only way, these days, for a new competitor to be assured of his start number by the organising committee.
    This 212 ticks all the right boxes.
    Participating in the MM is in itself an expensive undertaking, and we’re potentially talking tens of thousands of dollars, but that doesn’t dissuade the 100’s of contenders who arrive from all corners of the globe in Brescia every May to take part in what has become known as ‘the most beautiful road race in the world’.
    I don’t think that this car can be bought for $350k, but it could possibly go for less than $750k.
    Throw another $150k at it for preparation and competition expenses and if it completes, and that’s a big if for a thousand mile race, then its earned it’s $1m+ price tag. And the rich and famous will queue up to buy it.
    Not a bad return for the ride of your life !
     
  9. 3wings

    3wings Karting

    Apr 7, 2008
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    South Africa
    Full Name:
    Mike
    Hats off to Art & Jim.

    The 212 failed to sell and fell short of the bottom estimate by some margin.

    Two bidders in the room pushed the bidding up to Euro 325,000 ($424,000) against a reserve of Euro 380,000.($495,500)

    Is this a further symptom of the prevailing credit-crunch-induced belt-tightening or is this particular vehicle simply not worth the money?
     
  10. ArtS

    ArtS F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Nov 11, 2003
    13,401
    Central NJ
    #10 ArtS, Feb 9, 2009
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2009
    Mike,

    First, thanks.

    Regarding your question on whether this is a sign of the economy; the answer is slightly as it might have reached reserve at the peak of the market. If the bids were real, I think the car did surprisingly well and should have sold. Remember, while you and I happen to like the original look, most buyers that can afford a car like this, like their cars looking new. So add $150K - $200k US for the restoration.

    The reason for lack of value is somewhat similar to the issue with 400. While the car has a jewel of an engine, the style and condition make it look like a tired Volvo. At the moment, the tired Volvo look is not the flavor of the month. Also, the car's driving characteristics are probobly slightly worse than those of the tired Volvo (Jim G. can probobly atest to that better than I). Thus, even though this car was the top of the line when new, just like the 400, it is worth considerably less than those cheap little racers with no roof or weather protection... Which, by the way, is why early cars with similar bodystyles to this one tend to get rebodied into barchettas.

    Regarding the cars provenance: most of the early cars have interesting provenance, so this is already kind of factored into the mystique of the early cars in general(also kind of like Ferrari 400s). I think royalty is probobly a notch above a titan of industry and maybe on par with a minor movie star. A race driver is worth a bit more but even John Surtees' personal Ferrari, 6981, was broken up for parts. I think it takes a special A list star to really raise a cars value based on prior ownership.

    Regards,

    Art S.

    PS. Personally, I would take this car over a barchetta every time.
     
  11. dretceterini

    dretceterini F1 Veteran

    Apr 28, 2004
    7,289
    Etceterini Land
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    Dr.Stuart Schaller

    Some of the silly little 750cc or 1100cc cars that are real and not reproductions (especially OSCAs), with verified MM history, are going for nearly a half-million dollars!
     
  12. 3wings

    3wings Karting

    Apr 7, 2008
    139
    South Africa
    Full Name:
    Mike
    That was my original point, it was all about this car's eligability for the MM. But maybe the Mille Miglia itself is losing it's mystique although I can't see why. Surely it is the race that every period Ferrari owner dreams of driving just like The US Open is for amateur golf and Wimbledon is for tennis.

    Dr Etc is right, and I've made this point before, once a car completes the MM it's value surges on the back of it.

    Maybe ArtS is right, the current owner is being unrealistic in his valuation. Perhaps a $350,000 investment and then an additional $150k on preparation and race expenses is the maximum gamble any reasonable individual is prepared to make on this car. Perhaps all you do end up with is a Volvo stunt-double or an equivalent outlay that could otherwise have netted you over a dozen 400's !!!

    But surely guys, with an MM completion certificate pinned to it's CV, this 212 would then be worth $750,000.

    Or am I dreaming here ?
     
  13. dretceterini

    dretceterini F1 Veteran

    Apr 28, 2004
    7,289
    Etceterini Land
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    Dr.Stuart Schaller
    I basically agree with you. If it could be proven that a Ferrari of any type car does indeed have real PERIOD MM, Le Mans or TF history, it has to be worth at least $750,000 restored to MM (rather than Pebble Beach) condition. I don't think a car running in the modern retro events increases it's value much, if at all..
     

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