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Miller Ferrari Service Cost... out of line!

Discussion in '308/328' started by gio1992, Oct 15, 2005.

  1. brent Lachelt

    brent Lachelt Formula 3
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    Dec 6, 2003
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    So let's see, Miller's at $7267.68 including belt tensioners or Eugenio's in So. Cal for $4995. I guess that would be $2272.68 to have you book stamped?? Ship the car to Eugenio and take all that left over cash and buy some Hyper-Flow cats for your car.
     
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  3. ferrarokid

    ferrarokid Rookie

    Jan 30, 2004
    19
    brent Lachelt So let's see, Miller's at $7267.68 including belt tensioners or Eugenio's in So. Cal for $4995. I guess that would be $2272.68 to have you book stamped?? Ship the car to Eugenio and take all that left over cash and buy some Hyper-Flow cats for your car.


    Yes that would be a great idea ! $ 800 each way for shipping .. $1600 total .. and you save a couple of hundred bucks ! ! Then when or if, you ever have a problem .. you can just send it right back there for another $1600 ! !

    ...But at least you will have the cats ! !
     
  4. brent Lachelt

    brent Lachelt Formula 3
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    There are no problems when Eugenio does the car
     
  5. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

    Apr 20, 2002
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    Got to agree, you ALWAYS change the tensioner bearing IMHO. Geeeze!

    Anywho, forget Miller and call KTR European at info@ktrmotorsports.com or http://www.ktrmotorsports.com . They have done my 60k and sooo much more and their prices are reasonable AND THEY KNOW THEY STUFF!!!!!!!!!!!

    My apologies for yelling, though please, pretty please, with sugar on top and a cherry call KTR and ask for their Ferrari specialist David. They actually have four or five guys that can easily work on the car, yet David is the man with the plan :)

    KTR services and race preps cars. They are a HUGE FACILITY and have the knowledge, tools, etc... and then some.

    (Mumbliung) If you need tensioners... run away from ANY SHOP that says that. Run fast!
     
  6. brent Lachelt

    brent Lachelt Formula 3
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    The reason why I think it would be worth to spend the extra $1600 for shipping or use a local well recommended independent Ferrari mechanic is that dealers have a much greater overhead and gladly pass that on to their customers. I also read comments like the following that would make me think twice about using a dealer such as Miller's if I was in the area. Maybe things have changed there since 2000 and I'm sure that there are happy customers too. However, that major service price that you quoted is exactly why most people who have older Ferrari's avoid you guys.

     
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  8. Joe G.

    Joe G. Formula 3
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    ferrarokid

    what dealer do you work for ?

    or

    who do you work for ?
     
  9. Prova85

    Prova85 Formula 3

    Nov 13, 2003
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    Kenny K
    Being in CT you might want to call John Tirrel owner of Independent Ferrari Service in So. Easton Ma. 508-238-4224. One of, if not the most, respected independents in the New England area with 20+ years of exclusive Ferrari service under his belt.
     
  10. vinnycar

    vinnycar Karting

    Mar 7, 2004
    177
    New Canaan, CT
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    Vincent Cardone
    I have only had a minor annual service to date at Miller's on the 348 Spider and it was about 1K including an attempt to solve a gas smell problem by replacing the flapper valve near the fill head, which they completely misdiagnosed. Jean Luis LeBretton at Le Mans 24, Cos Cob solved the gas smell in one minute by spreading brake fluid over the inside of the fgas cap inside gasket. Also the car was sold to me by Miller's in April 04 with a "fresh belt service", which was actually done when the car was placed for sale a year earlier and soon after I took possession I started to get some oil leaks which they claim is normal. I am leaning strongly to using Jean Luis for the major service next year. Incidentally a recent post indicated that the Ricambi kit for the major service on a 348 is $1100 without bearings or water pump, and using the often quoted 20 hours labor for an engine out service at say $125 per gives under 4K plus fees and tax for the major service and it should be about the same for a Mondial so shop around.
     
  11. lusso64

    lusso64 Formula 3

    Apr 12, 2004
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    oops! I read that as fierokid....
     
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  13. arium

    arium Karting

    Jun 16, 2005
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    You're the best lusso!

    btw - I love your avatar! However, do you find yourself getting a little waterlogged if you hunch down too far into the bowl? Sponger :)
     
  14. bernardo66

    bernardo66 The Crazy Cat Man
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    Dec 14, 2003
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    Wow...deep. Skipping school are we?
     
  15. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Nov 19, 2001
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    That's my point. The dealers are OVER charging people.

    Ferrari does not make the bearings or the belts, or a whole lot of other stuff. You can buy the same parts and service elsewere at a HUGE discount.

    It's like this. You can buy a six pack of beer at the store for $6, or you can buy ONE cup of beer at the ballpark for $8. It's the same beer. Ferrari parts are no different.
     
  16. lusso64

    lusso64 Formula 3

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    Excellent analogy!
     
  17. AR!

    AR! Formula Junior

    Apr 8, 2004
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    As far as the TBs are concerned: I bought the ones from Paul Hill Engineering for my last major. According to them their TBs have better specs and they even are cheaper as the OEM parts.
     
  18. Joe G.

    Joe G. Formula 3
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    $8700 is very high

    even if that includes a new W.P., it's extremely high

    someone is making way too much :)


    $1400 for tensioner bearings is also obsurd

    here are the facts - -

    348 tensioner bearings
    www.ricambiamerica.com
    http://ricambiamerica.com/product_info.php?cPath=13&products_id=127&osCsid=4f21ef9a7d9e222390d930fdb04ea26b
    $350 each or $700 / set

    Hill Engineering
    http://www.customferrariparts.com/homemainferrari.htm
    $385 / set

    GT CAR PARTS =$369 / set
    1-623-780-2200

    and ferrarokid, in his description of what gets done in a mondial t major, he forgot to mention AC recharge and power steering fluid, unless of course that's another $1400 for those things too :)
     
  19. maurice70

    maurice70 F1 Rookie

    Jan 25, 2004
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    I do think $8700 is pretty high myself.Christ I'm having a complete engine rebuild+clutch+2nd gear synchros for around the 10K mark.As for the dealer stamp I wonder how much you would loose over the life of the car compare to the savings in not using a F dealer.I dont know what mondial T are worth in the US but just say for example $40K.How much would that hurt your resale if the services were not performed at the dealer against the money you saved from not having them do it
     
  20. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

    Jun 20, 2003
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    You gotta love dealers! "If" the bearings need replacement, then it's another $1700. How do they determine if they need to be replaced or not? Spin one on a finger? "Hey Luigi--think this one works OK?" No, silly. They KNOW darned well they are going to replace them from the start. They just say "if" so they can sucker you in with a lower estimate, then get into the job and say "Well, the bad news is your tensioners are toast and it's going to be another $1700." If you say, forget that, I'll buy them myself from Paul Hill and give them to you, they will say "No no no, we have to put in our own because we only install certified Ferrari parts so it's our $1700 bearings or nothing."

    Honestly, I would rather see a high estimate that includes everything and turns out to be what I actually pay, rather than a really low estimate that turns out to be nowhere near what I actually pay.

    Either way, given how easily the engine comes out of a Mondial T, I would think that the service could be done considerably cheaper. And I do not think that having your service records "stamped" by a well known independent is any different than the dealer. Who here has EVER been happy with the service on ANY car by a dealer of ANY kind?

    Birdman
     
  21. ferrarokid

    ferrarokid Rookie

    Jan 30, 2004
    19
    Wow this tread is very entertaining ! ! !

    If you read my first post it is not $8700

    Yes that included's the ac recharge .. by law you have to evacuate the r-12 and re-claim for recycling.

    Sorry for the delay .. I was just reading through some of Ernie's posts from previous threads ..

    And was reading some of the questions that he had ... With all this talk about tensioner bearings .. have you checked the water pump ? ? because I have NEVER seen an engine failure on a 348/ mondial t due to a faulty tension bearing, but I have seen it more then once due to a water pump failure ! !

    Seems like all your post's are "the dealer charges to much for this and to much for that" ...

    When you did your own major, did you check to see if you had the updated engine timing chain ? and guides ? ? what about the oil pump drive chain guide ? ? did you check the water pump ? ?

    What about when you installed new cam seals .. did you use the old - non drain back housings ? ? did you make a nice radus where the o-ring meets the corner of the cam cover ?? (to prevent pinching ) ? ?

    Was your head drilled with the, oil drain back from the cam seals to help prevent leaks ? ?

    I see your having transmission troubles .. Let me tell you .. If you think that a major service is very expensive .. YOUR IN FOR A BIG SURPRISE WHEN YOU START REPLACING PARTS IN THAT BAD BOY ! ! These are not parts that you are going to get at your local auto zone.

    I would highly reccomend doing the updated shifter cables also ! !

    How about the alternator ? ? still running the delco ?

    And what about the battery cables ? ? (I really hope your not using the "pull apart" cables)

    Does your car have the ground strap for the oil tank, to improve oil temp accuracy ??

    Did you use a staeger gauge to set the correct belt tension ? ?

    Did you check for trouble codes when it was back together ? ?

    How about for cat efficiency ? will it pass local emission tests ? ?

    This is what im getting at people .. most Indpendent shops are not privy to this information.

    Im not saying "do not go to the indpendent" Because I know some that are very good... usually worked at a dealer at some point.

    The modial t also suffers from hot start failures ( bulletin # 80-52)

    If the mondial in question is a valeo clutch car .. does he have the proper software/hardware to diagnose a problem ? or to bleed the system ? ?

    Have a great day !
     
  22. Tomf-1

    Tomf-1 F1 Rookie

    Jan 17, 2004
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    contact joe abernathy of cauley ferrari in detroit. they did 30k major service on my 360 plus new clutch and took care of all campaign service issues for less than $7. they are good and honest folks.
     
  23. ferrarokid

    ferrarokid Rookie

    Jan 30, 2004
    19
    TomF-1 contact joe abernathy of cauley ferrari in detroit. they did 30k major service on my 360 plus new clutch and took care of all campaign service issues for less than $7. they are good and honest folks.

    well a 360 has zero to do with, taking the engine out of a mondial. on a 360 you access the timing belts from the passengers compartment .. and there are no valves to adjust ..
    compare apples to apples (or whatever fruit you choose !) That service with clutch usually takes 2 days.
     
  24. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

    Apr 20, 2002
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    Had the AC in the 308 evacuated and recharged. For $207.25 they evactated the system THREE TIMES... once to evacuate, another time to check pressure holding, and the third time to evacuate before refill of 2 lbs of R12. Sure this was overkill with all the evacuation, but was not sure of the condition... and this only cost $207.25.

    NEXT!
     
  25. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 23, 2002
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    Having been involved in this for over 30 years, 500K miles of driving exotics, having maintained and restored a few cars that have turned out ok, and having a private shop that only works on my cars I can say in the end you do get what you pay for.

    Authorized Ferrari dealers provide service that has many intangables that IMO make it worth what they charge.

    Of course you can find someone to do it for less.

    Miller is a great dealership and for the service they provide worth using as are
    Wide World and FOLI. If you mention my name they probably won't charge you more...
     
  26. Tomf-1

    Tomf-1 F1 Rookie

    Jan 17, 2004
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    mr. ferraro kid,

    dude....i simply offer my sponsorship for cauley who, IMO is a good, honest and fair ferrari authorized dealership and share my past dealing experience with them. i wasn't making a direct "fruit cost comparison"
     
  27. PassionIsFerrari

    PassionIsFerrari Formula 3

    Aug 15, 2004
    2,454
    Ferrari uses timing chains on these cars? That's a new one on me.

    I have noticed that you have dodged the question about who you work for. So I will ask it as well...

    "WHO DO YOU WORK FOR?"

    I find it very relevant in this conversation because of your claims of your expertise and your defense of a specific dealership.

    And what about a guy like me...I don't know if I even have the books anymore, nor care about them being stamped. You say that it hurts resale, what about if you don't care about resale...I wouldn't have painted my car yellow if I cared about resale.

    Your tensioner bearing price sounds in line with the normal 'high' dealer price. However, the fact that it is not included in the major service price sounds fishy to me because EVERYONE agrees that tensioner bearings MUST be changed when doing a major service...especially because if they lock up, your engine is toast.

    And please don't insult Ernie or his knowledge of these cars. You might have more knowledge about many other Ferrari's, but I HIGHLY, HIGHLY doubt that you are as versed on the workings of the 348 as he is. And unlike you, he does not have money as another motive for lending his expertise. He helps to help, and I would bet a quick way to lose credibility and or possible sales would be to make 'condescending comments' about him and what he does for this board.

    And if you answer none of my questions, answer this one...
    "WHO DO YOU WORK FOR?"
     
  28. Bob308GTS

    Bob308GTS Formula 3

    Sep 26, 2001
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    The belt drive is chain driven off the crank


    Quoting a major with bearings extra is like asking if you want fresh oil with your oil change
     

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