Minor oil suction fan (screen) disaster; need torque specs for oil drain plug plate bolts | FerrariChat

Minor oil suction fan (screen) disaster; need torque specs for oil drain plug plate bolts

Discussion in '360/430' started by Jaymac, Mar 13, 2022.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. Jaymac

    Jaymac Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 18, 2020
    972
    New Hampshire
    Full Name:
    Jeremy McCurdy
    Good afternoon,
    I’ll try to get to the point, but unfortunately this is kind of a long story. While doing my first oil change since picking up my 360 in October, I pulled the oil suction fan (the mesh screen filter) to clean and replace the O rings. There ended up being a hole worn into the screen, so I ordered a replacement from Ricambi. I have read about others having this same wear hole, so it didn’t concern me too terribly.
    I went to install it yesterday and met a lot of resistance. I double checked the part numbers, made the sure the O rings were properly and thoroughly lubricated, then sent it home with a rubber mallet, and had to suck it it in the last 1/4” with the nuts themselves. I didn’t start the refilling process yet, as I had to move onto other chores. Over the next day, the whole thing didn’t sit well with me. I kept thinking that whatever offending area of the casting that caused the hole in the first place had perhaps gotten in the way and either ripped another hole immediately or I had broken the plastic body against the casting by using the force of the mallet, or that one of the O rings had come out of its’ groove and become lodged in the casting and that’s what I was fighting against, just opening the door for future leaks. Either way, I couldn’t refill and restart the car in good conscience.
    Today I went to pull the fan to inspect it to make sure it was undamaged before proceeding with the refill and restart. I suppose I shouldn’t have been too surprised, but it gave me just as much resistance coming out as it did going in. No matter how gently I tried to pry with every manner of pry tool, all it did was break off the plastic flange piece by piece. I then proceeded to fasten a few different sizes of bolts and washers through the face of the filter (seeing as it was already toast by this point), and prying it out that way, but being plastic and thoroughly wedged in there at this point, the bolts just kept ripping right out, taking the plastic with them in their threads. This entire time I had a heat gun on the casting as well, as it’s pretty cold in the NH garage, but to no avail. I was quickly losing hope, and had visions of the car being loaded on a flatbed, with “DON’T START! NO OIL!” post-it notes all over the car…
    Thankfully, I then got the idea to remove the “Olio Motore” plate, seeing as the fan appeared to run right above it, to see if I could inspect for damage, obstructions, and most importantly, if I could gain the ability to lever out the fan from behind.
    Lo and behold, I was able to get in there and see the offending protrusion on the casting (the boss that one of the plate bolts screws into). The screen just rests on it, but over time, you can see where with vibrations and possibly expansion/contraction of the materials, it could wear a hole.
    Most importantly, I was able to lever the filter from its base and finally pop it out of the case. Crisis averted.
    The O rings were both still perfectly in place and not torn. The screen was not torn or damaged, and surprisingly, nothing showed signs of friction or damage from insertion or extraction, barring the now thoroughly destroyed mounting flange. I took measurements comparing the old fan to the new (I’m still not sure why they call it a fan), and the plastic body on the new part measured .25mm - 1mm bigger at various points along its length. Minor, perhaps, but big enough to cause the need for a mallet to insert and getting inside the engine case with a pry bar to remove. Neither of which seems appropriate or normal, considering A. Logic, and B. That the original one could be removed and reinserted with such ease.
    All of this long story leads to my main question, which is: torque specs and gasket maker/sealant for the plate when I reinstall it. I scrolled (quickly) through all 1279 pages of the WSM I have, but didn’t come across it. I’m sure it’s in there somewhere if devoted more time to the hunt, but I’m hoping someone can just tell me if they know.
    There does appear to be a liquid gasket of some type leftover on the surface, and the bolts were pretty tight. Just want to make sure everything is up to par before I develop an unwanted leak.
    Thanks for sticking with me to this point! And a picture of the offending part of the casting, for those who have had this fan screen hole issue and never seen why!
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  2. Jaymac

    Jaymac Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 18, 2020
    972
    New Hampshire
    Full Name:
    Jeremy McCurdy
    2 updates to the post: I went back into the case with my phone camera to see if I could see the offending casting protrusion, and in fact, the casting has been worn down smooth and shiny from contact/rubbing with the screen over the years and miles, and I measured up the original screen to the case, and yes, the hole and smooth shiny area match up perfectly.
    Here’s a pic of the worn down casting, and the hole in question, if anyone hasn’t seen one before:

    Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
    Mel Spillman likes this.
  3. fotostars

    fotostars Formula Junior

    Feb 6, 2015
    345
    Bay Area
    Noticed the exact same everything when I took custody of my 360 some years ago. Same kind of hole. Ordered a new screen and 1st install needed some "force" to get it to seat all the way... Taking it out a year later wasn't too bad in fact, and it's been good every year ever since... The whole hasn't re-appeared yet.
    Thanks for sharing the photos of the offending casting, it all makes sense...
     
  4. Jaymac

    Jaymac Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 18, 2020
    972
    New Hampshire
    Full Name:
    Jeremy McCurdy
    That’s actually good to hear your experience! Perhaps by now, the casting and the original filter have done all the wearing down of one another that they’re going to do, and any subsequent filters will fare better, with the casting having been worn down by now.
    Also, from your experience, it sounds like perhaps the repeated heat cycles of living in the casing and oil bath will shrink the plastic body every so slightly over time, and ease future removal and replacement. All good to know.
    Thanks for your input!
     
  5. Jaymac

    Jaymac Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 18, 2020
    972
    New Hampshire
    Full Name:
    Jeremy McCurdy
    I scanned through the manual again -this time more slowly- and still couldn’t find any torque specs or sealant recommendation for that plate. Any suggestions?
     
  6. 67bmer

    67bmer F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 28, 2015
    2,959
    MD
    You shouldn't need sealant with the O-ring. Just put some oil on it and slide it back in carefully. Replace the locknuts and tighten gently. Since it's plastic, I would not use a full torque for metal housings.
     
  7. Jaymac

    Jaymac Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 18, 2020
    972
    New Hampshire
    Full Name:
    Jeremy McCurdy
    I’m actually referring to the “Olio Motore” plate that houses the rear drain plug. Removing that was the only way I was able to extract the replacement filter. It has a bunch of bolts and there’s some leftover sealant on the mounting surface.
    Wondering what the factory specs are and what type of sealant to use between the case and the plate.
     
    clean512 likes this.
  8. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
    6,906
    Central NJ
    Full Name:
    Dominick
    Loctite 518

    Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
     
  9. clean512

    clean512 Formula 3

    Feb 4, 2010
    2,111
    Full Name:
    Josh @jtcarprojects
    I ran into to this about a year ago and I had to do the exact same. I used gray Honda bond and never had a problem with that since there is no gasket. Just allways make sure both sides are perfectly clean. I like acetone and do a small bead with my finger on both sides and place the plate back together. I would need to did up the torque but they aren't much if I remember since they are I belive 8mm bolts.
     
    LorenzoR and Jaymac like this.
  10. Jaymac

    Jaymac Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 18, 2020
    972
    New Hampshire
    Full Name:
    Jeremy McCurdy
    Did you experience the same super-tight fit when installing the new filter (if I’m understanding you correctly)?
     
  11. clean512

    clean512 Formula 3

    Feb 4, 2010
    2,111
    Full Name:
    Josh @jtcarprojects
    Yes. Very frustrating with that part and design of it where its made of plastic. I literally had to chisel it out. Thank God for that plate which gives you much more room in there.
     
    Jaymac likes this.
  12. Jaymac

    Jaymac Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 18, 2020
    972
    New Hampshire
    Full Name:
    Jeremy McCurdy
    Have you removed it since for another service?
    I’m wondering, if like fotostars’ experience, it was/will be much easier to remove it the next year?
     
    clean512 likes this.
  13. clean512

    clean512 Formula 3

    Feb 4, 2010
    2,111
    Full Name:
    Josh @jtcarprojects
    Not yet this year.
     
    Jaymac likes this.
  14. Jaymac

    Jaymac Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 18, 2020
    972
    New Hampshire
    Full Name:
    Jeremy McCurdy
    If you think of it, please update this thread next time you R&R, just to satisfy my own curiosity and anticipation, if nothing else!
     
    clean512 likes this.
  15. Jaymac

    Jaymac Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 18, 2020
    972
    New Hampshire
    Full Name:
    Jeremy McCurdy
    I just got very disappointed when I read on the package of gasket maker they it’s supposed to cure for 24 hours before filling with fluids… looks like I won’t be able to start her up until next weekend at this point!
     
  16. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
    6,906
    Central NJ
    Full Name:
    Dominick
    Loctite 518?

    Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
     
  17. Jaymac

    Jaymac Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 18, 2020
    972
    New Hampshire
    Full Name:
    Jeremy McCurdy
    I had actually already picked up Permatex Ultra Black (suited for oil) by the time I read your post, so that’s what I went with. Hopefully it should be ok
     
    flash32 likes this.
  18. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 13, 2009
    16,527
    Charleston, SC
    Full Name:
    Curt
    Put new o-rings on it with some oil or grease and press it in. You might even have to tap it in with a rubber mallet. My first one looked like that too with the screen. Then replaced it with a second with intact screen. Torque till it doesn’t leak. Done. 12 years without an issue. Replaced the o-rings and cleaned it twice in last 12 years.
     
    Jaymac likes this.
  19. Jaymac

    Jaymac Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 18, 2020
    972
    New Hampshire
    Full Name:
    Jeremy McCurdy
    Thanks for sharing your experience
    So after the initial/original torn one, the first replacement has survived tear-free ever since? Happy to hear that!
     
  20. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 13, 2009
    16,527
    Charleston, SC
    Full Name:
    Curt
    Yup. It's the vibration of the plastic part that does it. Gonna be fine, just tighten it down until it doesn't leak. So many over service their cars or use torque specs that themselves aren't correct, e.g. the oil drain specs.
     
    Jaymac likes this.
  21. Jaymac

    Jaymac Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 18, 2020
    972
    New Hampshire
    Full Name:
    Jeremy McCurdy
    Hey guys, just wanted to update this thread after todays oil change, 13 months and 6,000 miles after my original post.
    I almost didn’t change the suction fan this time because I didn’t want the same disaster all over again. So I approached it cautiously and only applied slight leverage to both sides at the same time to make sure it was moving without stressing or breaking the plastic again. It came out with moderate effort, but much much easier than last year. It required more effort to get past the inside O-ring, but popped out in one piece nonetheless.
    I’m glad I took it out, because there was a fair amount debris on it. Gladly, there was also no hole in the screen like there was on the original, so I’m happy about that. It went back in with little resistance, and no initial leaks to be found.

    Overall, great experience this time! Whew!
     
    24000rpm and AandSC like this.
  22. TuttoBene

    TuttoBene Karting

    Sep 6, 2020
    78
    Full Name:
    Doug
    A rubber mallet or hammer and piece of wood is your friend when putting it back in. A screwdriver is your friend when pulling it back out.
     

Share This Page