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Discussion in 'Australia' started by Aircon, Mar 23, 2009.

  1. wrxmike

    wrxmike F1 Veteran
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    Mar 20, 2004
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    Michael
    Bombshell Claim: Scientists Find "Man-made Climate Change Doesn't Exist In Practice"
    https://www.helsinkitimes.fi/finland/finland-news/domestic/16562-finnish-scientists-effect-of-human-activity-on-climate-change-insignificant.html

    This has been collaborated by a team at Kobe University in Japan, which has furthered the Finnish researchers' theory: "New evidence suggests that high-energy particles from space known as galactic cosmic rays affect the Earth's climate by increasing cloud cover, causing an 'umbrella effect'," the just published study has found, a summary of which has been released in the journal Science Daily. The findings are hugely significant given this 'umbrella effect' an entirely natural occurrence could be the prime driver of climate warming, and not man-made factors.
     
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  2. IanB

    IanB F1 World Champ
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    Jun 15, 2006
    11,504
    Sydney
  3. kerrari

    kerrari F1 World Champ
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    Oct 22, 2004
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    Karen H.
    So Ian perhaps you can put away all the millimetre measurements of water/ice etc and just confirm that you think it's fine to continue POLLUTING the atmosphere with carbon, CO2, Carbon monoxide, diesel and other particulates etc? Because that's what the problem really is - POLLUTION which may, or may not according to a minority of opinions, lead to warming around the globe. The POLLUTION however, and all its detrimental health and other effects is NOT IN DOUBT. 'clean' coal is still filthy, it's just not as dirty as the earlier stuff. Why wouldn't we begin to transfer to new clean options when we have the chance? I just don't get the rabid opposition to new technologies which have clear advantages is one proven area and just MIGHT also have other side benefits. As to cost, since when is cheapest always best?
     
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  4. IanB

    IanB F1 World Champ
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    Jun 15, 2006
    11,504
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    the problem is that the alternatives to coal and nuclear, solar and wind, will not ever work for baseload power and themselves are massively costly to the environment. HELE coal is not filthy and the particulates don't persist in the atmosphere. However nuclear is the only answer for zero emissions power, as anyone who lives in France (80% of power from nuclear) will tell you. Australia is eminently suited, because we have the fuel and stable geology.

    I'm a fan of Bjørn Lomborg, who makes the very logical argument that we should stop wasting money on things that we know won't work today, while focusing on new technologies that will be viable later. e.g. thorium reactors.

    I noted today that Rolls Royce are proposing containerised nuclear power plants, using technology developed for and proven 100% safe in submarines) as a solution to the UK's power problems - they're now suffering grid failures due to to much destabilising wind power.
     
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  5. kerrari

    kerrari F1 World Champ
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    Oct 22, 2004
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    Karen H.
    Take a look at this: https://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/country-profiles/countries-a-f/france.aspx
    Several things to note:
    1. Most of the 21 sites (note more than one reactor on many sites) date back to the 70s and 80s so costs have been amortized
    2. But that also means some are reaching the end: 13 reactors are slated for closure.
    3. No NEW reactors have been built since 2000; one planned to open in 2021 and another planned has been cancelled.
    4. Dependence on nuclear is being reduced. Aiming to be down to 50% by 2030 IIRC.
    5. My HK electricity bill was itemised with cost for each of the different sources (methods) - Daya Bay (nuclear) was the most expensive.

    Your nuclear hero is backing away from it. Were you the one crying "It'll scare the horses!" in 1889?;):D
     
  6. IanB

    IanB F1 World Champ
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    Jun 15, 2006
    11,504
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    No Karen, the left are anti-nuclear for idealogical reasons alone. Francois Hollande campaigned on reducing nuclear dependence in favour of renewables, back in 2012 that was a vote winner for the left.

    Like much of Europe, there is little that's rational about government policies.

    My point was that France has had majority nuclear power for a very long time, with no accidents and no emissions. Nuclear is the only possible answer for baseload power without emissions and it's much cheaper per GW of actual electricity production than solar or wind.

    The big lie with solar and wind is that the "nameplate" capacity is always quoted when new sites are built, whereas actual output is a fraction of the nameplate, because the wind doesn't blow nor the sun shine 24 x 7.

    btw my power bills in New York also list where the power comes from and nuclear is the cheapest.
     
  7. kerrari

    kerrari F1 World Champ
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    Oct 22, 2004
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    Karen H.
    NY is similar to France - old generators long ago amortised but no new ones being built.
    France has had a right wing government for the past couple of years - they're who've cancelled the 2nd proposed generator mentioned above.
    Governments do follow public sentiment (more or less) - whether you like it or not, many places have moved left in the past 20 years (and no, it's not some great commie conspiracy!) EG, the famous 'mediscare' scandal - if there was a groundswell of conservatives demanding the rolling back of medicare where would the threat be? The fact is the coalition was scared any threat to medicare would decimate their own core vote.
    Why are conservatives so convinced there's some great conspiracy against them? Everyone wins or loses on the basis of their policies and explanations (and the left has been spectacularly unseccessful in that at many stages of history!).
     
  8. IanB

    IanB F1 World Champ
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    Jun 15, 2006
    11,504
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    Karen, I have lived in France and ran a business there, Macron visited my office when he was "inspector of finances". There is no such thing as right wing, there are only degrees of left. Macron is very much of the left elitist school.

    The Front National are not right wing either, they're just socialists who hate immigration.

    Mediscare was a lie and now prevents any meaningful reform of Medicare. The left control the media, there is no possibility of any reforming politician surviving their hate campaigns.

    France is the living embodiment of irreversible socialism, 62% of the population live off the government and won't vote any other way, despite 25% youth unemployment and shocking state intervention in every aspect of normal life.
     
  9. kerrari

    kerrari F1 World Champ
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    Oct 22, 2004
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    Karen H.
    Well sounds like you'd better get used to Lefty rule - in your view, they've already taken over the world!
     
  10. Steve355F1

    Steve355F1 F1 Veteran
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    Aug 26, 2011
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    Nah.
    Actually I think the opposite is happening. And strangely, I’d say it’s largely because of the behaviour of the Left.
    They really are their own worst enemies.
     
  11. simon klein

    simon klein F1 World Champ
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    Feb 25, 2009
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  12. moretti

    moretti Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Nov 1, 2003
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    John
  13. FazzerPorscheman

    FazzerPorscheman F1 Veteran

    Jul 28, 2010
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    Piz Gloria
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    EnzoFerdinand
  14. moretti

    moretti Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Nov 1, 2003
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    The door on the 250GTO probably sticks so you wouldn't want it !!! :p
     
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  15. Ferraridoc

    Ferraridoc F1 Veteran
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    Jun 20, 2012
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    Patrick
    You should see his pre-war F1 collection! BTW, I've never liked the styling of the La Ferrari, but it looks a lot better in blue (or is it black?)
     
  16. Aircon

    Aircon Seven Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 23, 2003
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  17. Ferraridoc

    Ferraridoc F1 Veteran
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    Jun 20, 2012
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    Patrick
    Looks like the wheel is the motor - similar to a Fisher and Paykel washing machine. I don't think the hubless wheel design would survive the rigors of normal use - cool, though. First design wheel like that by Sbarro 20 years ago
     
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  18. Aircon

    Aircon Seven Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 23, 2003
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    Peter
    KIAP
     
  19. Ferraridoc

    Ferraridoc F1 Veteran
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    Jun 20, 2012
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    Patrick
    OLIO
     
  20. moretti

    moretti Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Nov 1, 2003
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    John
    Sbarro was really out there at the time, his other designs were weird as well
     
  21. Aircon

    Aircon Seven Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 23, 2003
    77,472
    Melbourne, Australia
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    Peter
  22. Aircon

    Aircon Seven Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 23, 2003
    77,472
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    Peter
  23. Horse

    Horse Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Dec 1, 2005
    22,375
    Brisvegas
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    Jon
    And Ralph it.
     
  24. FazzerPorscheman

    FazzerPorscheman F1 Veteran

    Jul 28, 2010
    8,988
    Piz Gloria
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    EnzoFerdinand

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