Misery Loves Company – New Owner Horror Stories

whoever did the PPI for you didn't do a good job
you don't have to be a world-class mechanic to spot leaking hydraulic rams (huge stains on the undertray and smell are the main indicators), old tyres and alarm siren (red light on the dash stays on all the time)

 

Some of that should have been picked up on PPI. That dealer's description of every single car being "pristine" and "needing nothing" is laughable.

 

Sorry to hear about your experience...huge disappointment for you I am sure on the most exciting car purchase, etc. Seems like you are stuck putting in the money and getting fixed and keeping the car. Maybe ferrari shop rather than dealer can do all that work for about 25-30% less?

 

I'll play devils advocate.

You really thought your 12 year old Ferrari would be 100% free of problems?

Old tires, old belts, a sensor going bad from age, some leaking gaskets... this is all normal stuff for an older car.

Incorrect coolant, well that happens all to often in many brands of cars.
Brake fluid is one of the most neglected fluids, and I bet more Ferraris are in need of it than not.
Incorrect battery causing corrosion? Your going to have to elaborate on that one....

Transmission ( and engine ) mounts are probobly original, and at 12 years old no surprise they are in need of replacement.

The top pistons... yes this is a bummer and shame on the PPI for not catching it.



I don't mean to come off in a negative way, you should be happy that these are all just minor issues ( minus the top of course ) Enjoy your new car, it looks beautiful, and most of those issues are really simple fixes, common problems, and normal things to go wrong on a 12 year old Ferrari, or any car for that matter.

 

Probably 1/ 2 or more of your cost is the top hydraulics correct ?
This should of been caught by the PPI, and a known costly area of concern for Spyders.

Tires, brake flush, coolant flush, etc. , while these should of been identified,
not out of ordinary buying ANY used car....rule of thumb buying any 12 year
old car is be prepared to spend 5-10 % of car cost for some refurbishment.

Again, this stuff should of been identified, but a lot of it is fluids you replace
anyway to have a starting point. When I got my car I bought a new battery
soon after, just to start with a new battery and not wanting to get stuck....

How long ago did you buy ? Any recourse to PPI shop ?

Good luck and search for an independant to do the work....

BTW, I bought my car with known "weeping cam seals", and I could smell burnt
oil after parking in the garage, took it to local Ferrari deler for a evaluation
and they said it could wait till next belt change....
And guess what, after being driven regularly by me, no more smell and
minimal weeping, so it depends how bad it is.

Lastly, if the accessory belts are frayed, could be they never changed them with cam
belt change, or they never did cam belt change. .....have that verified.

 

I feel for you, I really do, but Tim1137 took the words right out of my mouth. Unfortunately, you will find out in time that all of these current things are minor.

 

Buddy
That is just nuts!!!!! $ 18000.00
Most of the things that you state are minor...belts /fluids/battery/some exhaust clamps/gear box mount /tires .
Now for the rams that can be a different story..
Does your top work ?
If yes ...Keep your eye on the fluid and drive your car!!!! They all leak a bit.If you dont see lots of oil on the floor leave it alone.KEEP your eye on the fluid. and top up as needed.
If not broken don't touch it.
As for the one shift acuation potentiometer? I don't know what they mean by that?
Are they talking about the shift solenoids?

 

Here's mine...

I bought a 2003 F1 360 with 25K miles which was a full option car and one-owner vehicle (maybe 2 owner although it apears to be on CarFax to be 1-owner, it seems there was another holding company or something of that nature).

Anyway, long story short -- car was in FL, got PPIed at the dealer there, had lots of service records and seemed to pass with flying colors.

As soon as I got it, within 100-200 miles or so, I got a solid F1 trans light and car was stuck in gear. Had to be towed; the indy place scanned engagement and potentiometer errors out of the TCU; recommended replacing both at 3K each.

Since I have connections in the auto industry we ended up getitng the parts at a reduced cost; both were changed and the car has been ok since.

My guess is that the previous owner was contemplating trading up or selling the car and when these issues started happening they sold it for -- what I thought -- was a good price. Now that it's sorted out we'll see what the future brings but I don't envision it to be a free from trouble experience.

 

Also as a side note -- the F1 issues that I learned about can range between (dealer estimates) a few hundred $ all the way up to $25K for a new actuator/etc. Of course rebuilding is the way to go but not everybody knows about that...

 

The PPI didn't even note 10 year old tires? Ummm...

PPI didn't see leaking cam covers? Ummm...

And, the aux belts were old/frayed? Were they listed on the work orders for the recent service? Again, ummm...

I only know a couple of things when buying one of these:

- Get a PPI from someone that you have referrals to (the PPi's I have had performed have been excellent and informative)

- Buy from a dealer that you trust (fwiw, and I realize I'm largely unique in this view, I NEVER buy anything, let alone an exotic car from eBay or based on any feedback or anything to do with eBay - I hope you can see I hate the word "eBay". I realize some dealers use it for "marketing" and I guess that's okay, but I'm only buying from a Ferrari dealer, a very, very, very well known exotic specialist (like CNC or Cats) or from a private party that I determine is trust worthy. Even then its not fool proof.

- I always assume it will need a full fluid, filter and belt refresh unless I have actual work orders/receipts that it was done by a dealer or well known indy and I have reviewed them.

- Try to find and talk with prior owners. I know its hard and will eliminate a lot of cars, but caught up with 2 of the 3 prior owners of my CS and it helped me to "know" them a bit (and I talked to the dealer that they used for service and I got prior service records).

This car was obviously neglected compared to what the majority of f-chat owners do with their cars. Sorry you found this one, I say fix it up and drive the heck out of it.

 

This ^^^^ and your story is basically why folks preach PPI from an independent trusted person. I'll bet a $1,500 PPI where you used the most thorough man available looks pretty good about now. These are also the woes of buying long distance, there are added costs to take all these risks off the table. If you paid a perfect car price, shame on the eBay seller. If you will be at around 95-115K after all is said and done then you are right there with the rest of us. That's how much a perfect car is going for these days IMHO.

 

Hard luck that man (and welcome to F Car ownership).

It seems that it's not at all uncommon for a garage queen of a car like the one you've just bought to nearly break a new owner's heart (and bank balance). They often seem to present a number of teething problems as they are awoken from slumber and put to use but, generally speaking, they seem to sort themselves out and become good reliable cars once again.

I do agree that some of those issues ought to have been spotted by your PPI but many may have only presented themselves when the car started getting used once more. I would regard the ten year old tyres, for example, to be so dangerous that any potential new owner ought to have been advised simply NOT risk driving the car before replacing with fresh.

As for keeping it or moving it on. I know the repair bill is a bitter pill to swallow (and I must warn you that there may be one or two surprises 'round the corner yet) but it looks like you've purchased a lovely example which should serve you well for a long time to come.

Best of luck with her and thanks for sharing your story.

 

Wow! Sorry for your troubles. It definitely can dampen the new owner experience.
The least I can say is shame on the people who said they did a PPI! A blind person would have done an equal (or better) job. They should have caught ALL of those problems. Even if they didn't, because we are all human after all, they should have at least caught the obvious issues.
It can be very upsetting when you pay top dollar for a "top dollar car that needs nothing", then realize that you were lied to...don't ask me how I know
Of course my story can't compare to yours as my car cost under $2k to make it proper, but it was principle for me. By the way, I was the one who found EVERY single issue wrong with the car. The PPI at the dealer found nothing wrong...surprise, surprise! They promised to fix everything that I found wrong before delivering the car to me, they did NOTHING to the car and delivered it to me with EVERY SINGLE issue that I found. I was WAY more angry at the principle of the matter than the money that it cost me. Thankfully, in my case, the dealer realized they were wrong and after a little battling back and forth, they sent me a check to cover the costs. At least they wound up owning up to the situation eventually and I have to give them give them credit for that. Of course I would have given them more credit if they fixed everything that they promised in the first place (without me having to threaten extreme follow up on my part)
Try to fix everything and move on with the car. Once you forget the troubles and the extra cost, you will really enjoy it!
Look at the bright side, everything that you fix will be one less thing that you have to worry about going bad in the near future.

 

Buying any used car involves risk. A twelve year old Ferrari, especially so. I bought 7 of the things. Some were outstanding, a few very needy. Sorry you got a needy one out of the box.

On another note, I bought a 430 3 pedal coupe new 8/05. It's been great now for 8+ years with 24K miles.

Dave

 

a counterpoint
fluid changes are done once a year. Something doesn't sound right. On that topic, were there paperwork?
PPI should have caught some of these problems and he was disappointed that they were missed.
I bought mine after PPI gave me a go-ahead. A few months after, "something" went wrong. The person doing PPI couldn't figure it out. It took a second shop to fix a problem - A $4K fix. Now she runs beautifully.

 

Try Cantrell motorsports, and Alfa of Tacoma.

Try posting in Northwest section for indie repair recommendations.

Cantrell did the PPI on my 360 purchase a year ago....noted everything.
They specialize more in P cars, but the stuff you need done, any
good mechanic can do, even some of it yourself if you are handy....

Good luck.

 

#3,4 and 7 are definitely concerns.
I wouldn't sweat the other stuff too much.

 

I'm trying to figure out how the dealer spotted #3, the shift potentiometer issue. You have to pull the shift actuator off to see it. If there were errors in the TCU then I'd see going there. Or how it lost it's casing or how it can get damaged as it's sandwiched between the actuator and the tranny...

 

You may be able to recover some of your losses from the PPI and the eBay guy but it will be an involved process.
I bought a 993 Turbo from a Porsche dealer from another state (on eBay) some years ago. When the vehicle arrived, it had a bad clutch, the CD player was not working, there was a small dent on the rear fender, etc. I contacted the dealer and Porsche NA to no avail. I then contacted the consumer fraud division of the State Attorney General Office for that state. After a few letters and phone calls, I received $4,500 refund from the Porsche dealer. Basically, they were misrepresenting the condition of the car and that amounted to fraud.
I agree with the other comments that a PPI BY A REPUTABLE FERRARI MECHANIC is a crucial. More importantly, I recommend seeing the vehicle yourself and “kick the tires” if possible. I just purchased a 430 from a private owner in AZ (I live in CA). I drove 400 miles to see the car and had the PPI done at a Ferrari mechanic in that city (the local Ferrari dealer- a Penske dealer, refused to perform PPI because of potential legal liability). IMO, before buying a $100K+ item, it is worth spending a couple more thousands to inspect it yourself. The 430 is now sitting in my garage.
BTW, I used to live in Seattle and had good luck with Gerber Motorsport on my 993 Turbo. They work on Ferraris too and you may want to check them out in addition to FoS. Good luck with you 360.

 

fix it and drive it. I bought a similar story and I am loving every mile. $16k in 18 months and only another $3-5k until the last detail is fixed, in the meantime, I have 12k miles on it in those 18 months and still driving it.

I look at it this way, by the time I finish the front steering/suspension work everything will be up to snuff and I should be able to drive it a long time without any issues. I am not counting the clutch I need to do in a few thousand miles, i wore that out myself

I did also know what I was getting into by buying a high mileage 360 and the price was right to begin with, yes of course I am upside down but not as bad it sounds and I loved every mile.

 

+1 $18k is way too much! The tires you can read the date on, the trans mount is cheap, the battery is annoying. I can't believe they didn't hit you with "needs windshield wipers" brakes will need to be replaced eventually.

 

I am not surprised at the maintenance list: everything there is a "known" potential issue with 360s. Maybe you read Fchat but you didnt apply what you learned if you did not ask specific questions about the top, cylinder leak, fluids, etc of the PPI mechanic.

Can you do $18k of maintenance on a 360? Yes. Can you get ripped off by Ferrari mechanics (even at dealers)? Yes. Hard to know where it falls on the spectrum from reasonable to GTFOOH without seeing itemized charges (as a prior poster indicated). Can you tell us the itemization?

When you say you paid "top dollar", would the car have been just as expensive had you purchased from an authorized dealer? You can bet the car would have been in truly top condition if you had. Why didn't you buy from a dealer?