Miss firing and hot cats | FerrariChat

Miss firing and hot cats

Discussion in '456/550/575' started by Salami, Nov 12, 2020.

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  1. Salami

    Salami Karting

    Oct 31, 2020
    219
    Oregon
    456 started running rough so I changed air filters, from k&n to OEM, and removed both MAF and sprayed them down with maf cleaner, and I removed all spark plugs and gave them a quick bead blast and reinstalled. Then I used deOXit spray on a few electrical connectors around the engine, the air valve, maf, and a few others as I’d read they can be problem areas. But, car runs even worse now. Got a slow down lamp a few times, and the cats seem to be very hot so I think I’m getting misfires and dumping fuel into them. Any ideas where I should look next?
     
  2. Salami

    Salami Karting

    Oct 31, 2020
    219
    Oregon
    Oh I was also getting a hanging idle which does seem to have resolved with my tinkering.
     
  3. Salami

    Salami Karting

    Oct 31, 2020
    219
    Oregon
    Is the slow down lamp only activated by hot cats? Or is there more involved in their function?
     
  4. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Feb 20, 2015
    11,547
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    Ian Riddell
    #4 Qavion, Nov 12, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2020
    No Check Engine light?

    Slow Down on both banks?

    If only on one side, disconnect the MAF on that side*. See if the car runs more smoothly.

    *If that doesn't work, try disconnecting the other MAF. These cars have crossflow engines, but the diagrams seem to show the MAFs as being on the same side as the ECU.
     
  5. Salami

    Salami Karting

    Oct 31, 2020
    219
    Oregon
    Sorry, no, only right bank. Flashed a few times, went out, flashed a few more times as I limped it back to the house. I had just gone around the neighborhood for a quick spin.
    I looked for the button for reading codes but couldn’t find it behind the Driver side kick panel. This is a 95 so it has obd1 but I have not figured out how to scan it yet. I think I may have a connector contact issue. Most of them looked good but a few had corrosion on the pins, so I might explore that more. Also, I’m wondering about the plugs.
    Does the car need to be tuned to run the oem air filters vs the K&N?
     
  6. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Feb 20, 2015
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    No, the MAFs determine airflow.

    When did you start having rough running problems? After long storage, after a hard drive, driving in rain, etc? The problem could be your cats breaking down, but there could be lots of things causing your problem. e.g. Cat ECU, thermocouple, fuel supply/regulation, MAF drifting out of tolerance (but not yet setting a CEL), etc.

    Anyway, go for the easy stuff first. Disconnect those MAF plugs (one at a time). If that doesn't work, start swapping components to see if the problem transfers to the other side. Ratarossa on YouTube has a video on diagnosing CELs.
     
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  7. ///Mink

    ///Mink Formula Junior

    Sep 5, 2006
    808
    Fair Oaks, CA
    Full Name:
    Tom Mink
    Had a similar experience with my 550. I was on a road trip, lost most fuel pressure on the right bank which caused misfires and an overheated cat. It still had enough pressure to idle but had badly reduced power.

    I'd put a fuel pressure gauge on each bank and see what you see.
     
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  8. Salami

    Salami Karting

    Oct 31, 2020
    219
    Oregon
    No, there was no cel either. I had been getting intermittent left bank cel before this, and hanging idle, but those symptoms subsided today. I’m sure the air filters changed the running condition somewhat. Maybe richened it a little due to increased resistance
     
  9. white out

    white out Formula 3

    Mar 3, 2010
    1,229
    Could be your thermocouple ECU. Should check to see if there are any codes stored.
     
  10. Salami

    Salami Karting

    Oct 31, 2020
    219
    Oregon
    Oh No, that’s odd! Kinda throws that whole philosophy out the window if that’s the case! Lol
     
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  11. Salami

    Salami Karting

    Oct 31, 2020
    219
    Oregon
    Those two test ports on top In front? Happen to know what pressure would be normal there?
     
  12. Salami

    Salami Karting

    Oct 31, 2020
    219
    Oregon
    Interesting development: so I messed around with the various plugs again and even checked a few more, sprayed more deOXit in all of them and gave a wiggle. The one that had the worst corrosion was almost clean from the deOXit when I opened it again, so little more spray and plugged everything in again. Reset with a battery off for a few minutes and then Fired it up again and now it purrs like a kitten. Strange. Maybe the MAFs had to burn off for a few cycles to settle in? Or maybe I didn’t get a plug back together all the way? But I didn’t find any loose. Dunno. But now it’s raining so I can’t properly test lol. Will report back if I find out more. Still tryin to figure out how to scan the car.
     
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  13. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    38,072
    Clarksville, Tennessee
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    Terry H Phillips
    Female car that just wanted some attention.
     
  14. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Aug 10, 2002
    26,406
    socal
    with ferraris the contact pins are always suspect. Using detox it and stabliant 21 were 1st gen solutions to this problem. When using this method spray out let dry then reconnect. Closing connectors wet causes problems. Gen 2 solution was the pin change.
     
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  15. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Interesting. The car may have eventually sorted itself out, but disconnecting the battery may have dumped the learned parameters (LTFT, etc) forcing the car to relearn straight away. Like the earlier 355's, 456's may not have a non-volatile memory in the ECUs.
     
  16. Salami

    Salami Karting

    Oct 31, 2020
    219
    Oregon
    Ah, I bet that’s what it was. Needed more dry time. I usually work the connections wet and then leave them to dry together.
     
  17. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    26,406
    socal
    Nope...just reverse that for best results.
     
  18. Salami

    Salami Karting

    Oct 31, 2020
    219
    Oregon
    yes I think it was a compound error of wet deox connectors and maybe mafs settling in. Thanks for the input. Nice to have support for that panic only a sick Ferrari can induce.
     
  19. niftyfivefifty

    niftyfivefifty Formula Junior
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    Mar 5, 2007
    366
    PacNW
    What was the culprit? Bad regulator or pump? I think my left bank is doing the same.
     
  20. Salami

    Salami Karting

    Oct 31, 2020
    219
    Oregon
    I think it was either one or a combo of the following that was all messed with at the same time:
    1:Corrosion in connectors on engine
    2:DeOXit spray being wet on said connectors
    3:MAF cleaning needing some cycles to settle in

    hard to say with confidence which it was but the result of just letting it sit and dry out the deoxit (which also means time for it to continue to do its job) but now it’s running the best it has since buying it. Actually I haven’t really had a chance to test that it’s running better but it sure seems like it just sitting. It’s been winter AF here so she’s been doing some garage time
     
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  21. ferraridriver

    ferraridriver F1 Rookie

    Aug 8, 2002
    4,135
    Bay Area Calif.
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    Dave
    Why? I’m not familiar with how it works.
     
  22. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    It's not really clear what to do with it. Unofficial online videos show people applying it and moving the contacts whilst still wet. Of course, you need to remove the contaminants before final reassembly, but working the connection whilst wet would help loosen the contaminants (in combination with the microbrushes that come with some Deoxit products).

    The brochure does say this

    How does it migrate? If it's wet, then it would migrate by flowing, but can it also migrate when dry? Deoxit may deposit particles of suspended conductive material on the pins and sockets which migrate when vibration moves the components (even when dry).
     
  23. Salami

    Salami Karting

    Oct 31, 2020
    219
    Oregon
    It doesn’t really dry dry, but the carriers flash off and leave an oily residue behind. I’ve been informed that long term this product can attack plastics and rubber so there is a better product out there according to him, and he’s an audiophile nerd who restores old stereo equip.
     
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  24. ///Mink

    ///Mink Formula Junior

    Sep 5, 2006
    808
    Fair Oaks, CA
    Full Name:
    Tom Mink
    I had a cracked high-pressure hose on one fuel pump (inside the tank). It would only allow for about 15-20 psi at the rail instead of the normal 55ish.
     
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