Mitch or other Tire Experts - need Help - 355 Spider | FerrariChat

Mitch or other Tire Experts - need Help - 355 Spider

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by richard_wallace, May 1, 2004.

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  1. richard_wallace

    richard_wallace Formula 3

    Feb 6, 2004
    1,957
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Full Name:
    Richard Wallace
    Ok - last week I put Kumho Escta's 275/40's on the rear of my 355...

    The Tire shop said these tires usually take around 36 psi (max for these tires are noted as 51psi).

    Through some previous threads - it is noted that the standard tires are 265/40 - so when you use the 275/40 - to use 1 - 2 psi less...

    So here is the question - when I had it at 36psi - it felt like the car was all over the place at high speeds and quick acceleration (kind of a mealy feeling -but not unbalanced or bouncy - more that the backend wants to kind of move around - I don't know if I can explain it properly) - I let it out to 34, then 32 now 30psi - better than the original 36 psi but still does not feel right..

    So I have looked at the Owners Manual about 10 times - and it has 2 tire specs (Bridgestone and Pzeros) It says for the BS - to use 32 lbs (265/40) and for the PZero - use 29 Psi (265/40)...

    I guess my question is - what PSI should I have in these Kumho tires... Since I am at 30 psi (2 PSI under the BS tire specs) - I am not sure they should be that low - or if I should be lower to be 1 - 2 psi under the pzero specs... (which would put me at 28 - 27 psi?)

    Help!
     
  2. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,739
    First question: what tires are on the front? what pressures?
    Second Question: how did the car feel before you put these tires on?

    Lets just assume that you have a set of tires and want to find the right air pressure for the setup you car currently has.

    First lets get the pressures in the right ball park:

    Get up one morning and overinflate the tires to 38 PSI, and drive to a streach of road with gentle turns, swales, and changes in tarmac. Drive the road, forth and back. Drive for feel and consistency, not speed. Then take 2 PSI out of all 4 tires. Drive the road, forth and back. Repeat until you feel the grip level come up. Write down this pressure. Now move in 1 PSI increments. We started with enough pressure to reduce the contact patch and the car should be squirly, as we let pressure out we will find a point where the girp level comes up and if we continue it will go back down.

    After we get the pressures in the right ball park, reset all 4 tires to the maximum pressure at which grip became good. Drive the road to refresh your memory. Choose one end of the car. Take out 2 PSI on 2 wheels. Drive the road. If you liked the direction the chassis balance was moving take another 2 PSI out, if not then change ends and take 2 PSI out of that end. Now work down in 1 PSI increments. Drive the road. When you feel the chassis balance that inspires confidence. Measure the tire pressures and determine the difference from F/R. Over a wide range of pressures, your car will feel balanced with this difference F/R. As you get better at setting pressure and reading the car you can converge on 0.5 PSI differences to optimize the handling and balance.

    In the end, the overall inflation should be between a maximum and minimum pressure (say a 4 PSI window) and the F/R difference should be constant.

    I happen to like my tires on the harder side of best grip as it enhances the response of the car, others can enjoy theirs on the softer side and enjoy easier to read feedback. Either way, its the balance that delivers confidence to throw the car around.

    General rules of thumb: Pressures stay above 30 PSI and below 38 PSI and you are seeking a difference of less than 2 PSI. If you car wants pressures outside of this range, you can change the rear ride height to minimize the f/r pressure difference.
     
  3. richard_wallace

    richard_wallace Formula 3

    Feb 6, 2004
    1,957
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Full Name:
    Richard Wallace
    Mitch - my fronts are the stock Bridgestones at 36psi - which is where the book says they should be (didn't touch these).

    Before I changed the rears - it felt very "stable" - Some of what I am feeling is also new tires actually making good contact - the others were pretty worn (nearly bald). - So I am feeling a little of that smooth ride that I am not used to... However it seems to be oversteering (I think) (let me exaggerate what I am feeling - it is not this bad but you will get my point) The back seems to go right then left - like on a sway bar on high exceleration or high speeds (85mph or greater) like a little left, then right, then left sway... It is not hoping or unblanced - it is smooth - but back and forth. (I am talking very slightly - but enough for me not to feel good about it and a tad bit out of control...)

    What I have not tried is to let some pressure out of the fronts - would that make the back sway - since I haven't touched those (other than check the pressure) - I will start again - with your recommendations for the front and back...

    Any more advise before I start my little experiment work here would be great!

    Mitch (as always - you are the man - and I appreciate your input!)
     
  4. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,739
    With a car as responsive as a Ferrari, you have exactly two choices when it comes to new tires. You can replce the rears with exactly the same tires (brand,, name, compound, tread, of proper size for the rear) as are on the fronts, or you change all 4 tires.

    I suggest you replace the fronts with what you just put on the rear as the easiest way back to a stable car.

    classic symptom of the absolute level of grip at the back on new tires not being as good as the grip level of the partially worn fronts. Therefore oversteer. You can learn a lot with a car this unstable, tune your reflexes, learn to steer with the throttle; its real fun, but its is not fast, nor particularly safe.
     
  5. richard_wallace

    richard_wallace Formula 3

    Feb 6, 2004
    1,957
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Full Name:
    Richard Wallace

    Yep - I am with you... To the fronts I go a changing... I might play a little with the pressure a bit more - I have got it to the point of "not so dangerous" - the fronts are only about 10% worn on tread... If my tinkering doesn't work...- I will bite the bullet for another new pair...


    Or I could just not accelerate fast or go over 85mph...

    errrrrrr....

    Ok - I will change the tires :)
     

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