I'm sure this topic has been covered superficially in a variety of places but there doesn't seem to be a definitive answer. What are the options for SV tires (205/70/15 and 255/60/15) these days? Pirelli: I'm aware of the CN12 being reproduced (PIRELLI :: TYRE) but no one seems to be able to get them stateside. Tried Lucas Tires, the Lamborghini dealer, and even Pirelli USA. Pirelli USA could not even confirm that they were available anywhere in the world but apparently they have no ability to see what's offered in Europe. I understand that if they can be gotten (presumably through a European dealer), they're obscenely expensive ($9000 for a set), and I'm interested in something that I can use up and replace so I can drive the car without the headache (or ridiculous cost) of tire replacement to weigh on my conscience. If they were say...half that, I might consider that. BF Goodrich: Looks like the BF Goodrich Radial T/A is available in the appropriate staggered sizes from Coker, but that tire is only S rated (up to 112mph), which makes me uncomfortable. Avon: Lucas suggested the Avon CR6ZZ (205/70/15 front, 275/55/15 rear). Does anyone have experience with this tire or know if it will fit? Particularly on a P400 or P400S fitted with SV wheels. Michelin: The widest the XWX is a 225...too narrow for the back of an SV. Any other options I should consider? Thanks much, Derek
The BF Goodrich tyres would be totally unsuitable for the car and unsafe. Use these and your insurance may be void too.
The BFG's will be be better than anything available back in the day, though I wouldn't do high speed runs in them. Avon CR6ZZ, Dunlop CR65, Hoosier TD, Mickey Thompson Sportsman SR (if you don't plan on going much over 140mph) and if you don't need DOT rating, Goodyear G12 (bluestreaks) are the best 15" options. If you don't plan on ever being in the rain, Hoosier R6 (DOT) and Goodyear G7 sports car specials (not DOT) will work and are extremely sticky. You may not want to run them as they can throw stuff up on your rockers due to how sticky they are. Fwiw, a lot of vintage Cobra owners run the G12 bluestreaks (also called billboards as they have the large Good Year text on them, easily removed if you so desire). I had a set of the G7 sports car specials for my '70's trans am. Very sticky but you don't want to hit a pot hole or any kind of puddle in them. I bought them for track use. The best 15" street tire that was not a DOT racing tire used to be the Yokohama Avid s/t. I ran them up to 135mph at VIR in my trans am and they were great tires. They stopped making them 3-4 years ago, unfortunately. Toyo R888 is available in a 235/50 if you can make that work.
I was talking this weekend with a well know vintage car preparer and this exact topic came up specifically about Miuras. He recommended the Avon CR6ZZ as what his Miura clients are using. I think You're limited to 245/60VR15 on the rears though. I used to have those in Michelin XGTs back in the day on my Bora and that was plenty of meat. I used 235s on the front but these are available in 205/70VR15. I think the 275/55VR15s would be too wide no?
These are the only ones that look right on a Miura, and with Miura values today, I'd make a contact in Europe or the factory and get a set of these. They are fresh rubber, properly rated, and will last a long time given how often the car is driven. If you need a contact, drop me an e-mail and I will put you in touch with someone I think can help.
Hi, I'm in the same situation with P400S #4039. It currently has 7.5x15 rims front and 9x15 rear w/ old Pirelli P7R 225/65R15 front and 275/55R15 rear. The fronts have plenty of clearance, but the rears are very tight and show minor scraping. They measure 27 3/4" tall and 11" at the widest point. I'm considering the Avon CR6ZZ in the same sizes available at Longstone for under $1,900.00 for the set of 4. However, the Avon rears measure 26 7/8" tall x 11 3/8" wide. They may be just a hair to tight a fit. I was just about to start a thread myself. Thanks for posting the question. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Interesting...let me know if they fit if you decide to go for it. I know I've seen CR6ZZs on a Miura S with 9" rear wheels, but I don't perfectly recall the width of the rear tires so I don't know if they were 275s or 245s. My intuition says that they were 275s because I have this "wow, lots of tire!" flicker in my memory but I saw the car in 2009 so I don't fully trust that recollection. I've seen mixed reviews about the CR6ZZs; apparently they're very firm (stiff sidewalls) and don't grip for beans before they get warmed up. Some say they're not so good in the wet, although they're used as wet weather track tires by GT40 racers. GT40 and 911 guys run them and overall, the feedback on those forums is favorable aside from the above. My mechanic says he has put 225 XWXs on the rear of Daytonas with 9" wheels without issue, so I suppose that's an option as well, albeit one that doesn't leave me feeling warm, fuzzy, enthusiastic, or wealthy. I've also taken Joe up on his offer to try and track down some Cinturatos in Europe. I'll be at the Ducati factory at the end of May and had planned to stop by Sant'Agata so I'll ask after the CN12s there and see what the word is...if any.
Valentino just responded 2 minutes ago: "Ok, we have available sets of tires original dimensions Pirelli for Vintage 215/70-15 and 255/60-15 Let me know or refer to any Authorized Lamborghini dealer world wide. Talk to you soon. Valentino"
Thanks Joe for putting me in touch with such a legend; he's quite pleasant to communicate with and accommodating. He confirmed that they are available. Heard back from Lamborghini Los Gatos and CN12s are available and can be gotten in the US(!). Price? $7495 for the set including delivery to the dealer here (SV staggered dimensions). The parts guy was in disbelief when he relayed the information to me. Hard to rationalize for a car that is not, first and foremost, going to be a show car. But, what a dramatic step forward in availability compared to two years ago!
That sort of reasoning is a certain formula for the road to ruin. OK for show I suppose and I do wonder how many really do drive these cars a lot now anyway.
I can see both sides. It occurs to me that since my car is a P400S, it shouldn't be on 7.5"/9" wheels anyway, assuming correctness is the ultimate goal. Therefore, if I get any Cinturatos at all, it will be for my 7" wheels. Based on regressing the price difference in Euros that I saw (4000 EUR for P400/P400S and 6000 EUR for P400SV, here: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/lamborghinichat-com-sponsored-lamborghini-houston/131246-miura-original-supercar-546.html), a set of 215s all round should run 2/3 of $7500 or $5000. For 7" wheels, there's also the XWX path, which runs $600 a corner for 215/70VR15 or $2400 for the set. XWXs have always looked right and worked well in my Ferrari experience. Maybe someone will show up someday with a 275/330/365 on these new CN12s, just to be different. My P400S is still months out so I've some time to decide. BTW, Lamborghini Los Gatos said it would only take a week to get the CN12s.
I'm one of those who does drive the car. What I don't understand is why there are so many P400/S out there with rear SV wheels. I'd sure think twice about spending $7500 for a set of tires; unless it was going on an SV!! My personal feeling is that those cars look best with the standard wheels. I can't imagine that a transplanted bigger wheel/tire on the back of those earlier Miura's (pre SV) make that big of an improvement. I've got michelin XVS's on mine and the car is the best driving of all my collector cars. Sorry if I got a bit off topic as I know the OP was looking for tire recommendations BTW; I'm looking for an original, undamaged, 7x15 campagnolo miura wheel with center hub. If someone out there wants to part with 1 or 2 wheels, or knows where one is, PM me. thanks
This is a correction to my previous reply. tires I have on the car now are Michelin XWX's... NOT XVS's. they've sure become expensive too!
Disagree. If you have a $700,000 P400S, or a $1,250,000 P400SV, $7,000 for tires is relative to the value of the car.
By that reasoning, I am glad that I don't have a $30MM GTO. On second thought, no I'm not. It just seems absurd that any set of tires should cost so much. Although a set of Veyron tires costs $42,000 I'm told, but at least they'll take a 4000 pound car to 268mph. Current Cinturato prices feel like being taken advantage of...how can they possibly cost so much to manufacture, even considering unfavorable economies of scale? Thing is, they know those of us who care enough will pay it...basic economics. At least they are available again. I'm now reminded of the David E. Davis quote in the 60 Minutes Countach piece where he compares Ernest Hemingway's quote about pheasant shooting and Lamborghini driving both essentially being worth whatever they cost.
I agree with you on all points. I also agree that new CN12s should not cost $7,000 under any circumstances. But, the fact is, they do. And they are the best-looking tire that is correct-for-spec with proper speed rating in fresh rubber from the manufacturer. As you say, after 20+ years of waiting, "at least they are available again". I think we sometimes lose sight of the fact that Lamborghinis are exotic classic & contemporary sports cars. They are not supposed to be inexpensive. Whilst I am all for getting a deal on parts if at all possible, I don't expect that to be the case, and my willingness to pay up for what is available (in my case) is a matter based on careful consideration of overall values etc and is not an act of recklessness.
I respectfully understand how you feel, and I also understand that people almost always look at these issues from the perspective of the values of the classics they own. The same thinking goes into whether certain models & variants are restored or not, and how much is spent on them. A matter of pure economics. When Pirelli announced the new CN12s, they mentioned that the Miura is "currently one of the most sought-after collector’s vehicles" http://www.pirelli.com/tyre/ww/en/news/2012/05/28/cinturato™-cn12-revamped-for-lamborghini-miura/ and perhaps they had this in mind when they priced the tires. I for one am grateful they have re-made these after waiting 20 years, and, yes, I bought a set. My point is well-made and does not suggest that it is ok that component prices are high. But at the same time, my thinking and that of many others does not equate to "this sort of reasoning is a certain formula for the road to ruin". Its a judgement call affected by economics. Rest assured many who will buy these new CN12s will not be driving down the highway of financial ruin with their new CN12s anytime soon. FWIW, I understand the sarcasm, but, the price of gas & wiper refills in the open market are controlled, and has nothing to do with this discussion.
Absolutely agree they aren't supposed to be inexpensive. I usually try to at least pass the laugh test, however. $7500 for tires did not pass my personal laugh test, but I shall end up with a set eventually in all likelihood. At that price, the privilege to grumble is part of the price of admission (and also shipping). And of course none of us who spend CN12 money will be ruined by it, otherwise we have no business having these cars.
Have you seen the price of correct twin stalk Carello wiper inserts? They also seem to be priced in accordance with the values of these cars.
Are you wiper blades that different from those on an Espada? I got a new set of the correct blades, not inserts, for $30 5 years ago. Not that wipers on an Espada work worth a damn anyway. But hey, who drives these cars in the rain thes days. Rainex is reasonable as long as you can maintain the speed to have the water roll off ... LOL