I've stayed out until now, to see what others had to say, but its time I think I spoke up. I DO NOT THINK A PUBLIC LYNCHING OF VIK IS IN ORDER! I think he has done what many think is best for the continuation of the NYTS section of Fchat with the approval of other moderators and Fchat members. This does not mean that I supported or like the fact that Woodear was banned, this does not mean that I condone the unpleasant actions and words of any party involved, and this does not mean that I like the schism that has formed between the members of Fchat and InsideTheEC. I have heard and understand both sides of this ugly situation, and I do not think that throwing stones or lynching is going to fix anything at this point. Currently, both Fchat and InsideTheEC continue seperately with seperate followings, cultures, ideals and goals, and both are very valid in their own right. Lets keep it this way without trying to rationalize water under the bridge and proliferate the acrimony between the two groups about things that have happened in the past. Lets just get along and put this ugliness to rest at this point! David
This is an issue for me since I am a paid subscriber and member of this forum. I am also a member of the ITEC forum. I have every right to be here as do you. I was not trying to be provocative , just was curious why you felt that your opinion (vote) , should hold more weight than mine or others that feel the same way as me. I have no issue with Vik personally. He has been a guest in my home. I just don't care for his style of moderation on this site and think its time for a change, that's all.
One more thing; I have alsO noticed you guys to be a tight knit community; well obviously how many people actually own FerrAri's and Lambo's in society. So I ask why stur up controversy in such a tight group of individuals. Vik is a great guy, like mentioned previosuly he coordinates a tremendous amounT of runs and get togethers for you all. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I see it as a slap in the face.
Zach, I am disappointed. Your post is extremely angled to the point you are seeking to make, and does not taken into account the full picture. You never choose to hold discussion with me on 99% of the posts I contribute to or start. Your loyalties to ITEC are well known. As I noted in my PM to you, I felt any contribution to a thread of mine was only to challenge me on every Ferrari post I make. We were talking about Ferrari prices and I was making an argument that IMO Ferrari premiums were coming down, an argument that others have made many times before. Out of the blue you post something random on Lambo prices. Where did that come from? Having seen this happen on more than one occasion, I was questioning why you chose only respond to these threads. Is there nothing else in common you see with me? You have ever right to decide where you post, but I wanted to understand your perspective. So rather than take it out publicly, I PM'd you, which I felt was the right thing to do. I can't believe you think I threatened you when I said "I'd ask that you show a little more balance in your posts." I mean, seriously? You failed to mention that you wrote a very nice post back, stating your perspective and why you posted what you did. You also failed to mention that I wrote you back saying I appreciate your honest reply, and that I'm glad everything is ok with us. I also said I'd like to respond more fully when I get the chance but that I was very busy. I thought the exchange was extremely cordial. You are guilty of your own accusation: stating selective facts to suit your own agenda and / or viewpoint. Very disappointing.
What's an obvious bias? It's obvious that you support ghost, should you be filtered out as well? The purpose of this poll, is to see the rate of support for ghost being a moderator. Anyone that participated/is participating this forum, has the rights to vote. For those who not just voted, but also replied with "motion to removal", they are all veteran members who have been here for years, I am not sure why you feel rightful that their votes and opinion should be discredited.
Ed, sorry to see you feel this way. You and your family have been nothing but wonderful to me. I'm sorry something as silly as the web has come in the way of our friendship. I wish you and your family nothing but the best.
I dont think everyone who has voted is a "vetern". You seem to have voted yes and wth a post count of only 20 something you have no room to even vote.
EdP: My vote doesn't count any more than yours, or anybody else's. My point was that there was alot of history here, and that this section was offputting, at least to me, when it was dominated by what I viewed as a hostile clique. The hostility was apparently borne from the view that certain 'rules' had to be followed here, eg., we weren't calling each other by the 'N' word in every other breath, etc. What I will refer to as the EC crowd took umbrage at that, Brad started his own site, and had many from here who followed him there. That much is good. As I've said many times, I don't have a personal issue with Brad, and have always wished him the best. But, certain of his 'gang' was still hanging around here, talking ****, and making like this was a lame place; nonetheless, they hung in here, and made it a place that was unwelcoming to others. I took issue with that at the time. Some agreed, some didn't, but the end result was a new moderator-VIk- who, rightly or wrongly banned WoodEar, and the rest of the EC crowd left in protest. And, it has been ok here: very little disrespect, smack talk, etc. Drives are organized, including by Vik; local restaurants, mechanics and other things are discussed and considered. It is a local section that is welcome to all. Now, the issue, raised by what appears to be the 'old' EC crowd is, Vik is a Nazi and should be removed as a mod. I don't agree, but that's just my view. However, I do feel strongly about the following: Nobody ever said the EC guys weren't welcome here. They chose to set their tone, draw their line, and decide when and in what circumstances they would play or stay. They left. Now they want back, without Vik as moderator. I'm good with the idea that the come back, so long as some basic level of civility and openess is maintained. Otherwise, harkening back to the 'good ole days' is not a positive thing, in my estimation. YOu may disagree with my views, but you won't disagree that this issue exists.
Mahwon: If you really are a new user( rather than somebody that has been here before and re-registered under a different name) you weren't part of the history and therefore would not be able to appreciate what the tenor of the board was like before Vik became a moderator. If you weren't part of the history, you have no first hand understanding of the issues lurking behind removing Vik as a moderator. If you were here before, your statement is disingenuous. So, for starters, which is it? As far as I'm concerned, this is not about whether I'm pro or anti-Vik. It is about the overall tone and attitude on this section. Frankly, your statements remind me of exactly the kind of sparring we had when the EC guys were still hanging around. If you have only 20 posts here, what do you have to complain about? I suspect that you are one of the very people I'm talking about. Prove me wrong.
Vic is doing fine IMO, my thoughts are that the other board got boring and they got tired of fighting with each other, I haven't been in the news in a few weeks, so they spill over to here to stir the pot.
Robbie- are you still plugged into the EC? If so, what's the issue about this section? Nobody here, until this thread came up, has even mentioned the EC stuff since they left. Why am I not suprised that we have new posters, with new identities, churning this?
Being a Mod is a thankless job that doesnt pay very well. Vik also became a Mod at probably the most sensitive time in the brief NY Tri-state history. It was akin to the Wild West and a new sherrif was in town. Vik had to make some choices im sure about people he was friends with. I don't envy him. Things are certainly better now than before he arrived. Is it perfect?....no. Lets all make it better, Kinda like it was in 2002 ahhhh memories. The golden years era of Fchat... Spring is around the corner....lets go driving!
Bill This has nothing to do with the EC. This is as Dan, Zach, and I have pointed out about a bias that we and others feel interfers with his moderating. I have no problem with any opinion he may have but when he starts Ferrari Bashing threads in the NYS section of FCHAT which have nothing to do with NY, and I point out that they should be moved to the Lambo Chat section of FCHAT as they have nothing to do with NY and he tells me they belong in the NY section because two NY residents are arguing in the thread, (one of which is him) and therefore he won't move them, as I said then, and I say now it is time for him to go. Any Mod. who causes many people to have no further interest in the NY Section of FCHAT is not doing FCHAT any good. That such a person should be Mod in that section is silly. Best
Rob F. was banned from the EC a while ago so I wouldn't look to him for that info. and no one is churning this. This is how we feel.
Jim I appreciate your opinion, but I do have to take issue with this statement. It is revisionist and totally unfair to lay the blame for lack of interest in this section entirely on Vik. The "breakdown" of the NYTS happened because of many factors involving many people. It's partly W00dear's fault for picking fights in every thread, it's partly Bruce/Bill Hart/etc.'s faults for taking the flamebait and fighting back, it's partly Vik's fault for banning Chris and stirring the pot, and it's partly the fault of everyone who "self-banned", unplugged themselves, and left in protest. To state that Vik is the reason that 50+ people left this section and to imply that all would get better if Vik were no longer a mod is just not right. nlh
Jim: I am not going to make any apologies for Vik. If he acted wrongly, he did. Whether than rises to the level of removing him as moderator is another question. Here's my problem: You say this has nothing to do with EC, then you say that Vik's actions led to the departure of 50 members from this section- who, other than EC and EC sympathizers, are you talking about? Then, you state that Robbie cannot speak for the EC because he was banned there, but the voices calling for Vik's removal here reflect how 'we' feel. Who is 'we' Kimosabe? Is 'we' the 'EC'? Jim you know me, and I am generally not a troublemaker. What am I missing? I know you are well-regarded in the EC and that is cool, as is your support for them. My only other question relates to the issue of moderation, generally. It is rarely an issue for me. Ever. I don't get into confrontations with moderators here, or in any other section of the board. Why? I doubt I push the limits. I have no reason to. So, can I ask why, if this is about heavy-handed moderation, that this issue only seems to come from a group of people that were effectively disenfrancished, perhaps for good reason, after Vik became a moderator?
whart... let me ask u a question. do u think a fchat moderator must adhere to all the fchat rules (posting rules, etc....)?
LET ME CHIME IN... WE ARE VERY WELL RESPECTED GENTLEMAN OF AGE...ME, JIM, ED P,BILL, EVEN NOAH....... I HAVE PROB BEEN HERE THE LONGEST ON FCHAT, WITH BILL AND JIM.. YES, THIS TRI STATE SECTION WAS MUCH BUSIER IN THE YEARS PRIOR TO THE EC WITH ROB AND BONNIE, TIMN88 SHOOTING OFF HIS MOUTH, BRETM, AND MANY OTHERS I HAD NO PROBLEM WITH THE EC BOYZ, AND EVEN MADE UP WITH BRAD, BUTTAFUX.. CHRIS WOODBALLS OR WOODEAR WAS A ANTAGONIST, NEGATIVE TALKER, TROUBLE MAKER, AND SIMPLY NOT HEALTHY FOR A CHAT SITE MY POINT NOAH, BILL HART AND MYSELF WERE NO REASONS TO BE BLAMED FOR WOODEARS ACTION OR VICS BANNING HIM.OR THE DEPARTURE OF PEOPLE FROM THE EC OR ELSEWHERE.FROM THE TRI STATE SECTION...WE JUST GAVE WOODEAR BACK WHAT HE THREW AT US....SIMPLE... LET VIC ALONE, UNLESS SOMEONE ELSE WANTS IT AND CAN DO A BETTER JOB AS A MOD BTW, HI DAVE M............ BRUCE
Thanks for putting it in words. I personally have nothing against Vik at all. In fact as a person I don't even know him. My comments began more towards my own personal opinion as someone detached. I actually didn't realize how much history there is. But it's not a question of EC vs Vik or something else to that effect. It's a question of effective moderating. Are Vik's opinions worth any less than yours or mine? No! Are they worth more? No! So then why is the poster / moderator line blurred in myriad cases. Yes, being a moderator is a thankless job, but that power comes with responsibility. Personally I think Rob should pay his moderators so as to add true accountability. That's my own opinion. But thankless job or not, if someone is ineffective, or if someone is displeased with their responsibilities, they should no longer have to bear those burdens. That's all. FWIW, Brother Bruce's endorsement of Vik as a person speaks volumes, because I consider BRUCE a truly genuine person of the highest order. --Dan
Bill So far 34 people feel he should be removed because they believe his bias has interfered with his ability to moderate. Dan, Zach, and I have stated exactly that. Not because he's banned people. This has nothing to do with his banning people. This has to do with his bias interfering with his ability to be a moderator. Noah This isn't about the past this is about the present, bias that is turning people away form the NY section. Zach, Dan, and I among others. (BTW I changed 50 to many and I do feel that many is correct) Best
Where do you get the power to allow who and who isnt allowed to vote. I have all of 31 whole posts, and have been around this board for long than you have. Since i have so few posts, does that mean i am not worthy of voting in this poll? This community provides alot of information, whether it's be good and bad, that can be determined in short period of reading. Im sure Mahwon has done a little research on this topic to prove as to why he voted the way he did. As I have not met Vik (or mostly anyone else here, for that matter) i cannot comment upon what kind of person he is outside of Fchat. However from what i have seen in the past few years/months/weeks/etc. the tri-state section has declined. Just take a look at the number of OT threads on the first page alone.
