Modern Era V8 Collectiability? Will it be the 355? The 430? over the 348 360 458?

With my 330 2+2 purchase in late '02, I got in on the very tail end of the just used cars era for '60s V12 4-seaters. Prices have since tripled and I couldn't afford a comparable car now. Glad I jumped in while the opportunity window was still open.

IIRC, decent 275 GTBs were in the $200K range at the time and a similarly decent Lusso could be had for $125K.

 

Personally, I think the 348tb/ts or 348 SS (in tb or ss) are going to be collectable. I know the GTB had some revisions and a slightly more modern exterior (body colour lower section), but the black around the bottom of the car was very in keeping with the period when the car first emerged. Then the SS variants had more in the way of power and handling refinements. In my view, the younger crowds (under 30s) tend not to be so enthusiastic about convertibles, so I don't think spiders will continue to command the premiums they have traditionally done for the baby-boomer generation.

None of the 348s had F1 gearboxes, power steering, traction control, or computer-controlled suspensions. They were the last production Ferraris offering a completely raw driving experience. The 355 had power steering (arguably that's not a good thing), and huge steering wheels with a giant airbag in front of you (also, arguably not a good thing from a style point of view).

The looks of the 348 are more in keeping with the period of the early 1990s, while the 355 is much easier to mistake for a modern car. For a great many people, the side strakes scream "Ferrari!". I would concede that the aesthetics of the 355 fit better into the modern era and it was a car ahead of its time, but collectables are often period pieces. So, for something collectable, I think the 348 will eventually overtake the 355.

All the best,
Andrew.

 

...no the 288 is 4" longer and all the panels are different, I owned a Norwood 288 car and only thing that remained after the modification was the roof panel and the front trunk lid though that had to be modified. The 348 and 355 share a lot of body component and the proportion and wheelbase remain the same. My point was about design, it is hardly a ground up redesign and more an evolution. Certainly the power train and interior are significantly different which makes it a much better car than the 348 (as it should be) though one that has been nagged with endemic engine weaknesses (valves, headers etc...). it is beautiful car but nothing really set up it apart to offset the high production numbers.

Regardless, while many of the modern V8 may see it easing on the depreciation and even see a small increase in values (heck a nice 360CS is fetching 20% off MSRP after almost 10 years) none have the uniqueness or small enough numbers that with make them the next "Dino"

 

I have driven one, great car well balanced and very competent and an significant improvement over the 348s but so is the 360, and the 430...nothing unique or epic about them. I guess I may have missed the point of the thread, I interprete collectability as having an upside in value due to limited numbers and uniqueness...btw, in my book it is already a classic, much like the TR and 308 just don't see them as collectables, now back to the crystal ball

 

You just have to wait until they pass their 30th.

 

A classic captures the time period, simplicity also adds to this reminding us of a simpler happier time.

Whats reminds us off happier days a drop top or hard top?

Production numbers? Sure but ferraris are not chevys. Look at what chevys are bringing with high production numbers.

Timeless design, does the car still look good today?

Can it be worked on by a hobbyist with simple tools?

This puts me in the area of the 348 or 355 spiders

This formula has worked since cars got engines

 

EVO magazine tested ALL the V-8 Ferrari's from the 308 right up to the contemporary 458 in an issue at the end of last year. They judged looks, performance and driving enjoyment and at the very end of the article the car that most pleasantly surprised them was the 348. They said its steering feel and driving pleasure were the most memorable of all cars tested. It really is the last of the true analogue cars

 

Here's the problem. I think the 246 Dino was the last of the Ferraris that was considered 'just a used car.' Since the late '80's, pretty much all Ferraris have been deemed collectible and none of the cars after the 246 were old enough to have died off and been put to pasture, so there has been little attrition. This is why the 308 hasn't increased in value, there were a lot made and most of them are still out there, many restored and people with them are holding onto them and keeping them in decent shape in anticipation of the value increasing. Prior to that, they were just used cars and thrown away, coupled with low production numbers makes the rarity much higher. Even if they had similar production numbers to some newer cars, a lot more were junked back then so the number left is much lower. Despite having 5x the production of the Dino, there are probably 10-12x the number of 308's still in existence due to never being 'just a used car.'

 

Looking bat at a car when it came out is a small indicator

Motor Trend test 1998. I think they like the Ferrari 355 sound


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLDcMcRzM4k[/ame]

 

What I was getting at is that many my age (I'm 29) don't seem enthusiastic about the whole convertible experience, they tend to like enclosed cars much better. Unless this is a transient preference that most people grow out of, it may represent a fundamental shift in the body type of cars that will be most sought after in the coming years when this generation of car enthusiasts age to represent the main age-range of collector buyers.

The more I read about the 348, and the more of them I see at car shows, the more I want one. I just hope I manage to get into one before it dawns on everyone else how great they really are and prices start to go back up.

All the best,
Andrew.

 

I strongly disagree. When the 348 came out and especially the 355 , 308's were just used cars. Just look at the number of them today that are butchered and you can tell they had some rather uncaring owners who could care less about upkeep or originality.

The reason the Dino shines today is the looks.

Well, taste changes over time. I personally love the looks of custom bodied Duesenbergs. But, how many kids born today would 40 years from now? To them it could be just an old car. Prices could very well stabilize all those many years as they trade between one car collector and another -- but the MARKET for them doesn't increase with aging population.

Tastes change over time and that changes the market. You guys keep confusing rarity with supply and demand. Don't.

 

Maybe it's a generational thing but also it's an innate personal preference. 328 GTB owners are pretty passionate about the 'B' version and typically have worked very hard to find one because that is what they were drawn to for a variety of reasons; looks, increase in rigidity, etc.

Not likely.

This is it. Looks win out over performance every time. As Dr. Who (Dale) put it a while back, it's the reason the 275 is valued many times higher than the Daytona. Curves win over angles and points. Maybe taste will shift over the next 20 years back to edges. Actually that is happening now with many cars of today.

-F

 

The Dino is certainly one of the prettiest cars ever made thats for sure

 

Ask someone that question in 1985 and you'll get a much different answer. I know... I had one in 1985.

 

I think if anything, they've had a renaissance amongst younger buyers. I'm in a big university city & I think there are many more convertibles & targa tops these days than 10-20 years ago. Fiat 500, Smart, Golf, TT, 3 series, MX5, you name it. Maybe where you are it's too wet & cold..

 

Could be!

All the best,
Andrew.

 

348/355 require engine out service and 20% of the value of the car could be spent every 3-5 years. Unless a cost effective conversion to a timing chain is developed it will not be worth while for most people to own long term.

 

In what part of the world is it 20%??

Here in Oz it would be about 5% maximum and I know in the UK in might get as high as 7% but any more than that isnt a routine service.

 

cambelt and major service is around 10-13% here

 

Another Fchat myth that needs to be busted.

Cam belt changes are insignificant in maintenance costs over other F cars. $1000 a year is excessive? Hardly. The yearly annual for an F430 is $1100 -- and it has a timing chain.

In addition, I haven't seen any $20K 348's or 355's around lately -- at least those that still had an engine in them to change that nasty belt.

 

I think this is an important point. Modern Ferraris are bought mostly to put a few hundred miles a year on, driving to the detailer and back, and that trend certainly wasn't in place with the 246.

I've noticed this with a lot of vintage now-collectible cars -- they tended to driven hard, and the there are sometimes only a handful that can be called original. I've seen this with 246s, early Porsches and E-Types. Astons seem more often than not to have been bought as 'heirloom' cars and cared for better. Any modern Ferrari seems to be available in as-new condition, in quantity. That's why the notion of a 360 CS/F430 Scuderia or 599 "GTO" ever being rare or collectible seems like a long shot. I've yet to see one in less than perfect condition.

I remember the 308 as being a pretty special, fair weather type car even back in the '80s.

Dino surely does shine due to its looks.

 

The late '80's boom got rid of any old Ferrari as 'just a used car'. Since 308's weren't that old at that point, they hadn't yet been disposed of. Ever since then, all of these cars have been considered 'collectibles' in anticipation of the next boom (whether it comes or not). I don't ever remember the 308 being 'just a used car.' That's why there are still plenty of low mile examples around (well that and I think some may have gotten the speedo disconnected at some point for the same reasons).

 

As the 348/355 decrease in value over time to $35-$50K, engine out service fee's will go up over time. The average person will be spending $8K+ on engine out service within 5-10 years.

I think engine out cost to maintain a $40K vehicle will hold back these models.

I also think the same issue is hurting the Testarossa market.

 

My point was where do you go for an engine out for $8k+? For that money you would want to be doing more than a major service (belts and fluids)

I was quoted $3 to 3.5k by my mechanic for engine out plus belts and fluids. A decent 348 would cost a max of $85k here, so that's less than 5% (just a smidge over 4%).

Are you saying in the US your cars cost half as much but service costs are more than double??

 

I thought we agreed they stopped making real cars at the advent of 5 mile per hour bumpers?

So far, everything that was said in 1990 when AIR BAGS arrived about appreciation holds.