360 - Modern solution to prevent cracked exhaust manifolds? | FerrariChat

360 Modern solution to prevent cracked exhaust manifolds?

Discussion in '360/430' started by kaj750, Nov 18, 2024.

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  1. kaj750

    kaj750 Formula Junior

    May 9, 2022
    287
    Fresno, CA
    Been searching for a day or two. No luck. All the information I can find seems to be for parts that are no longer available.
    What are people doing nowadays?
    I've developed a dreaded tick on the left side exhaust manifold. Assuming the worst, going to be replacing with a used piece that is hopefully in better shape. In any case, I am looking to make sure this doesn't happen again.
    Off topic, but to preemptively answer this suggestion: I live in California, so no - aftermarket headers or not an option for me.

    The only part that I can find available doesn't seem to be correct. I'm attaching the description, the part number, and the picture of what I found. It says it goes between the catalytic converter and exhaust manifold, but is clearly a picture of an engine mount lol

    Thanks, in advance! Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
     

    Attached Files:

  2. imahorse

    imahorse F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 25, 2017
    4,364
    WI
    Full Name:
    Dustin
    360 manifolds aren't prone to cracking like the f430 ones. Not saying that it can't happen, but it's not as prevalent. It could be that the pre-cat let go and is floating around in there which could potentially cause engine damage. Also, have you verified that the tick isn't coming from the intake manifold?

    This article goes more into depth on that.

    https://aldousvoice.com/2013/01/07/ferrari-360-air-intake-system/
     
  3. kaj750

    kaj750 Formula Junior

    May 9, 2022
    287
    Fresno, CA
    My stethoscope says it's coming from the passenger side of the engine, somewhere before the subframe.
    I'm HOPING it's a loose nut on the manifold, but I'm not usually that lucky.
    I've heard exhaust leaks from a cracked runner before.... This sure sounds similar.
    Even still, per my pay: I still would like to find a way to take some of the stress off the mounting points.
    I know some people worry about the exhaust banging up the small grills in the rear bumper. I could take those out. I care more about how the car runs and it's reliability then how it looks with some silly little grills in the bumper lol :D
     
  4. anotherred360

    anotherred360 Formula Junior

    Jan 10, 2015
    279
    USA
    The rearmost driver side header gasket was leaking/had a slightly loose nut when I swapped headers on my 04. Could have been previous owner shenanigans but it looked like I was probably the first to remove them since new. You can check a few of the nuts from the top while laying down on the engine before taking more serious action if you have small hands and a variety of 13mm wrench shapes.
     
    Mel Spillman and kaj750 like this.
  5. kaj750

    kaj750 Formula Junior

    May 9, 2022
    287
    Fresno, CA
    13mm?
    Crap. After reading another member's how-to, I ordered an assortment of 12mm wrenches and a crows foot.
    I knew I should have checked myself.
     
  6. sparetireless

    sparetireless Formula 3

    Nov 2, 2003
    1,587
    you can change the headers

    just shift the 02 sensonors onto the main cats like a1999

    requires a $2 bung to be welded in from summit racing

    passes smog
     
  7. kaj750

    kaj750 Formula Junior

    May 9, 2022
    287
    Fresno, CA
    Not in California, unfortunately.
     
  8. sparetireless

    sparetireless Formula 3

    Nov 2, 2003
    1,587

    Yes it will pass
     
  9. kaj750

    kaj750 Formula Junior

    May 9, 2022
    287
    Fresno, CA
    Nope. Our Smog techs actually look up diagrams for any part that looks out of place. Especially headers. I've been failed for OEM parts, until I was able to prove there weren't aftermarket. Headers will not pass smog in CA.
     
  10. GogglesPisano

    GogglesPisano F1 Rookie
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    Sep 13, 2022
    3,218
    East Bay, California
    Full Name:
    Joe
    Depends a lot on your smog guy. The ones that are meticulous will certainly ask where the extra two cats are. Others are just so amazed at it being a Ferrari they kind of gloss over things. It’s a gamble either way. I’m chancing it on mine and getting headers as I was just smogged this year. Gives me two years without issues and worst case gives me the task of a header swap every two years.

    there’s also an outfit in England that will make new headers and put your factory clamshell over them so it looks stock.
     
  11. sparetireless

    sparetireless Formula 3

    Nov 2, 2003
    1,587
    the pre cats are invisible
     
  12. kaj750

    kaj750 Formula Junior

    May 9, 2022
    287
    Fresno, CA
    I kind of figured this thread would turn into another one about catalytic converters, so I'll just go with it lol

    That would be awesome. Assuming that can be done, I have one of the West Coast's best fabrication shops local.
    If my manifold is cracked, I will swap out for set of headers. I will then relocate my oxygen sensor to after the catalytic converter. If no CEL I will roll that way until it's time to smog again. During that time, I'll have the heat shields cut away from the OEM manifolds.
    If I fail smog, I'll pull the headers off, have the heat shields welded on, try again.

    Yes. And?
     
  13. GogglesPisano

    GogglesPisano F1 Rookie
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    Sep 13, 2022
    3,218
    East Bay, California
    Full Name:
    Joe
    Well, there's only one shape that fits in the stock header shells so you'll either need to replicate the OEM routing or use these guys: https://quicksilverexhausts.store/collections/ferrari-f430-1/products/ferrari-f430-manifold-exchange-2004-09

    I haven't seen any reviews so I have no idea how they sound.
     
  14. kaj750

    kaj750 Formula Junior

    May 9, 2022
    287
    Fresno, CA
    Update:
    Exactly what I suspected based on the sound. Turns out one of the air injection tubes cracked
    1. Has anyone tried to weld these before? Does anyone know how thick the metal is? I'm not really seeing a source of stress on the pipe, would anyone happen to know what makes them crack, in the first place? Is it just from the heat?
    2. Has anyone had a bad experience driving with the tube cracked? I may have to drive the car about 6hrs away to swap/fix it.
    3. In regards to the manifolds cracking from the stress of engine movement, doesn't the type of connection between the manifold and cat. (in the picture I'm posting) relieve that? With those sprung bolts, usually there's a little bit of movement allowed. Is it not enough?

    Thanks, in advance!


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  15. anotherred360

    anotherred360 Formula Junior

    Jan 10, 2015
    279
    USA
    I haven't been around here that long, but that is the first time I've seen the AIR pipe cracked.

    Since the leak is before the O2, the ECU may think it's running lean. Maybe not severe but idk. If it's bad I imagine you'd get the "slow down" light?

    I don't think the 360 has a thermal expansion/restraint problem like the 430. I assume cracked exhausts are more related to individual manufacturing/weld quality issues, overheated exhausts, careless installation of exhaust parts connecting to the headers, etc. They are +20 year old parts with a lot of thermal cycling and vibration.
     
  16. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    29,069
    socal
    If off the car I could weld that faster than than the time it would take to take the cover off my welder and turn it on. It might break again because ferrari makes crappy parts. If you got a whole new one it might break again because ferrari makes crappy parts.
     
    kaj750 likes this.
  17. kaj750

    kaj750 Formula Junior

    May 9, 2022
    287
    Fresno, CA
    From what I've been reading, a cracked air tube is pretty common. Also from what I'm reading on this forum is that the technicians are instructed to weld them back as opposed to replacing the entire manifold. Definitely cuts costs for the dealership lol.
    If it is, indeed, cooler air coming from the air pump and being directed into the exhaust, maybe I could see how varying temperatures could create a weak point and then cracked.
    If I didn't live in such a smog regulated state, I would find a way to bypass the entire system.
    I'm just glad it's the air tube and not the manifold itself. If I pull it off and the precat is okay, I will consider that a huge win. I say that because it's not usually my luck. I'm usually the victim of worst case scenario. Lol
     
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