i use BG MOA. For Porsche and Ferrari engines. its not "Slick50" snake oil, it adds things that have been removed from the modern oils that the older engines need. if i am wasting $8.00 a can on this stuff, its better than being wrong and having to find another carb Ferrari engine. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Has anybody heard or used this product from N1 technologies? It contains nano particles of tungsten. N-1 TECHNOLOGIES
I remember advertisments for "Molyslip" when I was a kid. They addided this to the engine oil,ran it a bit,drained the oil,and ran the engine only on the moly that attached itself to the metal parts,engine didnt seize. ?possible? I never tried that on my TR3.
Interesting that that appears in the manual. If you look at the 1975 Owners manual for a 308 GTB http://www.ferraridatabase.com/The_Downloads/The%20Documents/Owners%20Manual%20308%20GTB%20116%201975.pdf there is no such mention of it. Nor is there mention of it in any subsequent 308 owner's manuals.
I'm not much of a fan of oil additives because oil companies spend a lot of time on their formulations, so adding something to disrupt the formula seems like a bad idea. That being said, this seems like very good stuff. The reviews on Amazon are pretty amazing: Amazon.com: Customer Reviews: Liqui Moly 2009 Anti-Friction Oil Treatment - 300 ml
My experience with Oils is on Motorcycle engines where the oil is changed often, and the engines have higher redlines than most automotive engines. First there are a number of Synthetic or Synthetic blend Motorcycle oils that contain "Moly" Honda private label offers them both with and without Moly Torco oils have Moly My experience with oils, is as soon as you change over to a synthetic or even a synthetic blend bearing wear stops, OK it does not stop but pretty close when compared to a Non synthetic. The only downside I have seen with moly oils was again in a motorcycle engine that uses a wet clutch that is lubed with engine oil. The moly causes the clutches to slip in some cases, not all. I was told a long time ago that the Moly is attracted to heat, if that is the case the clutches do get hot! If that is the case the moly getting on the clutches worked too well as a lube. Looking on the internet this is what I found. As moly is in some oils the possible corrosive properties may have been overcome by now. Now to the internet: Check out the OEM bulletin from Cummins. It is the Cummins Engine Oil Recommendations, Bulletin No. 3810340-02 . Its probably best if you stopped by a Cummins Dealer and purchased this bulletin- about $2 or $3. On page 7 it has a section on FRICTION MODIFIERS states: "There is firm evidence that certain friction modifiers, molybdenum dithiophosphate for example, can in certain formulations result in cam follower pin failure at relatively low mileage"........ From years working with engine test programs to approve engine oil formulations for API licensing, we can tell you that NO engine oil containing Molybdenum additives has been certified by the full range of engine tests necessary to gain API approval. Molybdenum compounds in motor oils can degrade and cause bearing corrosion and is particularly aggressive towards copper. In almost all cases, any engine oil formula having "moly" will also contain a Copper Deactivator which will protect bearings from the moly compounds. The only problem, the copper deactivator decomposes at relatively low temperatures and looses it's potency after a few thousand miles. http://72.14.235.104/search?q=...gl=sg Quote from the article: "Improving fuel efficiency by adding molybdenum disulfide and/or graphite to the engine oil and achieving low friction and low wear using fatty acids and organic sulphur compounds together are two examples of friction modification However, molybdenum disulfide may decompose and release sulphur, causing corrosive wear, depending on conditions, and its lubrication working mechanism may be assumed interms of iron sulphide coating formation by the released sulphur." Try some Torco. It has their additive called MPZ. The M stands for Molybdenum ("moly"). I was told by Torco that moly is a very good additive because unlike zinc additives moly has a higher vaporization point so it's consumption rate is lower so you can put less of it in and it be more effective and not adversely affect the other property of the oil such as foaming etc. You want the red moly and not the black moly.
More interesting stuff from someone who seems to know. A litre of Helix Ultra Racing used the Ferrari 058 costs between GBP150-00 to GBP200-00 Engine oil - Forum - F1technical.net synthetic base oils like Poly alphaOlefins (PAO) are highly stable to oxidation so they do not "craack" i.e. shorten their hydrocarbon chains under high stress like temperature and pressure. They are poor carrier fluids of additives so a bit of mineral oil is added to PAO or special additive need to be used. The oxidation stability and the molecular stability allows for the hydrocarbon chains to not alter their behaviour significantly over a wider stress range than mineral oils can achieve. VI (viscosity improvers) are added to further enhance theirtemperature performance under extreme conditions. These viscosity improvers are temperture and pressure activated. A different molecule is required for temperature activation than is required for pressure activation. Not to be confused with Extreme Pressure additives or anti wear additives. 2.) What is the pros & Cons of this particles/foreign items that contains in the engine/engine oil? - Metals - Graphite - Teflon - Wax - Detergent additives metals are not really desired in an engine oil, however they are used in various additives. ZInc Phosporus and Sulfates are most commonly used. These are usually in Anti wear additives and extreme pressure addtives. Detergents are also often metllic based. Graphite and teflon are not desirable in an engine oil so they are not used. Hard particals like graphite wll score bearing surfaces and damage piston rings. Teflon does not decompose very nicely under pressure and heat and can cause ring sticking. Wax is also not a desirable contaminant in an engine oil since it is solid at room temperature. Paraffinic wax made through Fischer-Tropsch process could be beneficial to provide high temperature viscosity in a F1 engine oil but it would need to be added in significant quantity to makeit beneficial and requires a preheating of the oil. 3.) How do graphite formed in the engine oil? Can it be removed when graphite formed in engine? graphite does not form in an engine oil. Carbon residue is indicative or poor base oil quality or too high viscosity and poor detergency and solvency of the oil. This is not desirable. Yes those can be used, but are more desirable where piston velocity is low and hydrodynamic lubrication is hard to achieve i.e. LArge ships engines. F1 engines is a different matter as well. Oil filtration is pretty fine with high pore density and small micron apertures. Along with the metallics one needs to use metal deactivators to ensure no catalytic reactions between the oil and the engne components under the high temperature environment. The tungsten disulphide you are refering to I assume for use as a friction reducer? Molybdenum disulphide is more typically used in greases but I guess if the partical size is in the nanometer range and concentration is high in the percentile range then for a slow revving engine theres benefit. hex boron nitride is fairly common in engine oils as anti wear component. A note on Waxe, specifically Fischer Tropsh wax is that is excellent feedstock for making highly shear and oxidation stable XHVI or group III base oils. Yeah there is no pressure viscosity mechanism in group I or Group II base oils. They rely solely on blends of different viscosity range base oils to make a High Viscosity Index (HVI) base oil. Additives then are used to tweak the VI performance with temperature and pressure. The Group I and group II base oils tend to boil off with an increase in pressure and temp, combine this with the viscosity dropping off and wear becomes a real problem for these oils under high load. VI improvers are typically polymers of Butene that extend as the temperature or pressure rises so they are able to attract more hydrocarbon molecules to their extended arms. Shell illustrated this quite nicely in an add campaign over a decade ago where they used roller blade's skating in circles and extending when extra energy was available. Synthetics, thanks to their high VI, are not as volatile and therefore the temperature and pressure range they can operate under without boiling off is much higher, often up to over a 100degrees Celcius higher. The standard tactic of blending a few base oils together is still employed to improve the overall performance and often mineral oil is still added any way as a carrier for detergent, EP and Anti wear additives. There are newer packages that don't need mineral oil but these are generally very expensive and will only be used in motorsport applications. A litre of Helix Ultra Racing used the Ferrari 058 costs between GBP150-00 to GBP200-00. The Poly Urea grease used in the CV joints is around GBP1-00 per gram. this is mostly because the lubricants used in the F1 car is essentially lab blended product and not production lots from a blending plant. raptor- interesting comments. May I ask your background please? Are you involved in the lubricants industry at a technical level? Mechanical engineer by education, tribologist by profession
