Mondial 3.2 Changed timing belts and now NO IGNTION!!!!

If anyone can give me help I would love to have her running soon. First of, let me say Im a "part swapper" and not an expert mechanic. Here is the backround:

I bought this 87 Mondial 3.2 cab knowing that the timing had jumped, or atleast the seller was pretty sure. (I got it for a steal). The vehicle arrived sight unseen and had the front timing cover, compresser, and the valve cover removed. The seller told me he had inspected but didn't know what he was looking at. (I wished he hadnt removed the a/c comp) Anyway, checked the marks and got flywheel to TDC 1-4 and found the cam marks. The exhaust cam had jumped about 70 degrees (45 on crank) I installed new belts and got the timing dead on. NO VALVE DAMAGE!!!! Yes!

The problem is she would start. Could hear fuel pump kick smoothly and can smell hint of fuel. Sprayed starter spray and nothing. Next I check spark with tester and nothing. Both banks! I have checked power to the ignition coils and Im getting power to the red and red/black on the harness to the coils. Im getting no power to the other wires when I turn it over. Im getting nothing out from the coil though.

Im assuming the TDC sensors send a pulse to the coils which then releases a spark and distributor puts it to the correct plug. Does the TDC sensors go to an ECU? It has to be something common to both coils. If so, what could be the problem and why did it occur only after the belts where changed!

I have not reinstalled the alternator though. Could this be affecting a ground to the Ignition ECU?? I have a feeling it could be a groung issue as I noticing when I try to use my light tester and hook it up the a valve cover bolt Im not getting a ground.

Any help or anyone with the problem of no spark to both coils would be greatly appreciated!
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You have one TDC sensor on that car. Check the resistance and see if it is open or has a value. To loose both banks it could be the microplex or the TDC sensor.

 

Your Mondial 3.2 uses the same Microplex ignition system as a TR. It has two flywheel sensors (one TDC sensor and on RPM sensor) -- if either one is bad, both banks will have no ignition. See this thread (and the thread it references) for suggestions:

http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=260371

 

Use a volt meter and see if your engine is grounded. You mention it doesn't work as a ground, but the spark plugs use the heads as an electrical ground. The engine must be grounded for them to work. Start here before moving on the more complex stuff.

 

Jon, I hate to be negative, but until you've run a compressiona and leak down test you can't be sure of no damage to the engine from the cam skipping some teeth. The valves could have kissed a piston top and then may not be seating properly. I hope everything is A OK in there!

 

I thought there were 2 tdc sensors? I found 2 white wires coming from 10 oclock and 2 oclock. I tried to measure for resistance but got nothing on my meter. It just stayed at "1". ( I had it set to 2000) Can some one be more specific about how to test? Do I put my probes on the disconnected harness side coming from the motor or frim the side going to the ecu?

Thanks for all the help! I know Im missing something simple and would love to hear her roar to life.

 

1 TDC sensor and 1 RPM sensor. Disconnect the lead and measure the resistance on the sensor itself (male leads).

 

I pulled the harness off the ignition ecu and put a volt meter to poles 11 and 13 (gnd and 12v). There is no power coming from 13 in the harness. In other words, the ecu may as well not be there. Even with harness disconnected, Im getting no change in anything. I.E., the car turns over, Im getting main power to the coils, but ecu is not sending signal to number 6 in harnesses.

Is there a relay between ingnition switch (key) and the ignition ecu? Could I have gunk in the key switch. Is there an anti-theft switch or anything? Can I bypass and run wire from battery to ecu to temporarily test?

Thanks!

 

No, only Connector C1 and a multi-wire splitter.

Yes, it would be OK to run a temporary wire from the "+" battery terminal to pin 13 of the ignition ECU for a test (as this is what should be happening when you have the key "on").

 

ok, so i went to double check voltmeter on pin 13 on harness side. "0" volts with tester(red probe in 13 and black in 11) . I checked a little 1.5 battery to confirm tester was working properly and got 1.4 volts.

So next I decided let me try my light tester with auxilary ground and it lit brightly in 13. Do I have no ground in Harness? Does anyone have ground diagram?

Also, Im not sure Im testing tdc sensor properly and rpm sensor. Ive checked connectors and the looked clean, so Im testing them at harness. I think 1 and 2 in harness for tdc and 6 and 7 for rpm. I set tester to 2000 ohm setting and Im getting "1" on tester( no change) and Im getting a consistent 1405 for the rpm tester. I know its says in manual or somewhere they should be between 650 and 1000.

Im not sure if Im using the tester properly or whats going on. It seems like a lot of little electrical issues for a car that was running prior to belt change. Im waiting for that "Ah Hah" moment to figure her out.

 

Certainly seems like it based on that result. Don't know the specifics of how the ground at pin 11 is achieved, but (just like putting +12V power via a test wire to pin 13) no harm in adding another test wire to directly ground pin 11. (I would guess that the actual ground connection should be near the MicroPlex ecu and would be an eyelet type connector that gets bolted onto a grounded stud.)

The US Mondial 3.2 OM shows (at the 25-pin connector on the MicroPlex ECU) TDC = pin 1 and pin 2, but RPM = pin 3 and pin 16. However, I'd suggest that you first make this measurement for each flywheel sensor at their own (unplugged) 2-pin connector that is upstream.

 

Oh right, 3 and 16. Thats what I did measure. I will measure them upstream and get back.
Thanks for the help

 

I read the post about the magnent to the tdc sensor on rossa that got it to work. Anyone know how to do that proceedure?

Anyone know where to get tdc sensor from if magnent doesnt work?

 

I definetely have bad tdc reading 0. I ordered one from T. Rutlands for $159. The problem is I can barely see the tdc in the front of engine yet alone r/r.

Anyone done this on Mondial or have any advice?