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Mondial Airconditioning Upgrade: cheap

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by snj5, Jul 23, 2008.

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  1. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

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    Russ Turner
    #1 snj5, Jul 23, 2008
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2008
    I was talking to Mike at Norwood's today and he was commenting how my Mondial's a/c blew colder and stronger than anyother Mondial or 308 they had ever seen. While I posted this a couple of years ago, I thought I would quickly review what makes it that way.

    The secret to the Mondials's A/C is to ELIMINATE LEAKS AND COOLING WASTAGE.

    The first thing I did was cap off the hose to the rear ducts at the seldom used back seats - it is always "on" ond draws away and wastes a lot of cooling capacity through leaks and sinkage. What worked for me was an ordinary spray paint cap (black) with a piece of stick on weatherstripping on the inside to seal and hold. I personally removed the duct, but you can leave it in place.
    similarly, using two rubber stoppers, I plugged the wasteful vents to the outside mirrors (also always on and not helpful) by opening the door and stopping up the hole on each side where it comes out of the dash to mate with the door.

    ALSO - and many do not know this - close off the TWO MANUALLY OPERATED FOOTWELL VENTS under the dash. They are just like the two side vents, but out of sight undernrath the dash on the air box. If open, they will waste cooling air down below. They are ok to use, but I'd recommend opening them only for heat.

    A big loss of cooling air happens at the crap front plastic vent. Tow reasons: it is resrictive and most of the sealing foam on every Mondial made has deteriorated and/or fallen off, leaking cold air to back behind the dash. Ideally, if you can find one, get an STCorsa replacement billet black metal replacement center vent designed for the Mondial - looks stock, is more attractive and works way better. In any event, either using new foam weatherstripping or our old friend, duct tape, seal off and around where the air box joins the center vent to prevent cool air loss.

    These little tweaks take no time at all and really make a difference. The basic principles may also apply to the 308s, but I've not looked at their system in detail.
     
  2. Bad Dogg

    Bad Dogg Formula Junior

    Sep 29, 2006
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    Howard
    #2 Bad Dogg, Jul 25, 2008
    Great post!!! Thanx. the other thing I have noticed is that the vents at the sides of the dash are fairly worthless - have very little air flow. I keep them closed, but have not officially "blocked" them off.

    My A/C also blows cold, but with the cab, when the temp. gets above 95 or so it still can't keep up.

    H
     
  3. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #3 Wade, Jul 25, 2008
    Russ, I've seen a couple of Mondials that had really cold air but lacked flow. Is there a fan upgrade that might help?
     
  4. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
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    #4 snj5, Jul 25, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Not that I am aware, but I am watching the 308 A/C thread pretty closely for ideas as I live in south Texas. You would be surprised at the flow increase from just sealing off the leaks - no kidding about 50%. The loss of pressure to the leaks, back and door vents in combination with the high resistance of the plastic grill really is something.

    Very similar to the electric window thing, you might consider running a relqay controlled power wire directly to the fan, but you would loose the variable flow. Of course if you are like me, I only run it full tilt or off.

    Another thing to check is the air intake under the plastic grill to make sure it isn't clogged with 20 years of stuff.

    To repeat myself and echo others, we really need someone to start re-making those STCorsa front vents. All of us that have them swear by them instead of at them like the plastic piece. See pics below.
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  5. hank sound

    hank sound F1 Veteran

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    #5 hank sound, Jul 25, 2008
    I thank STCorsa every time that I turn on my AC. It's a damn shame that this little jem of an upgraded vent is seemingly no longer available. It was reasonably priced and was worth every penny and more !

    Oh well...........

    Hank
     
  6. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #6 Wade, Jul 25, 2008
    Unfortunately STcorsa is incommunicado.

    Their website has been converted to a monetized parked domain that contains script from a well known browser hijacker (http://i.nuseek.com).

    Here's the address I found for STcorsa but this phone number is no longer in service either.

    S T Corsa, 8494 Commerce Ave, San Diego, CA 92121
    (858) 547-0863
     
  7. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #7 Wade, May 22, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Well... look at what Ricambi is carrying. :)

    http://www.ricambiamerica.com/product_info.php?products_id=221714
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  8. hank sound

    hank sound F1 Veteran

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    #8 hank sound, May 22, 2012
    There we go !!! And we mount it with the thicker (protruding) portion towards the feet - and the thinner portion upwards. This way, we don't freeze our knees. :):):)

    Cheers, Hank
     
  9. Ricambi America

    Ricambi America F1 World Champ
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    #9 Ricambi America, May 22, 2012
    Incorrect listing. Those vents are *not* in our inventory, nor have they been available here for a few years.
     
  10. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #10 Wade, May 22, 2012
    Darn! I was going to call you about them tomorrow to see if the price listed (now zeroed out) was correct.

    Thanks for the update :)
     
  11. Ricambi America

    Ricambi America F1 World Champ
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    #11 Ricambi America, May 22, 2012
    They were made with (IIRK) BMW 320i vents and a housing that Steve Maxwell (in California) did. It was a good product, but honestly too expensive for what the market would/should bear.
     
  12. hank sound

    hank sound F1 Veteran

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    #12 hank sound, May 22, 2012
    Last edited: May 22, 2012
    Guess it's time for all of us to start banging on Ron Frohock's door (cabriolet top latches).

    IMHO, the STCorsa vent is the most comfort inducing element that I have ever been able to introduce into my driving "cool air" comfort factor. The factory vent seems to have proven itself incapable of directing airflow any higher than the level of one's knees. Not so with the STCorsa vent - just turn on the A/C, and you'll feel it !!

    Well, I assume and hope Steve (STCorsa), is well on his way to doing well with other things. While hoping he's OK, I really do still wish he was here for us, since we really need a better A/C center vent than that which Maranello gave us. The factory vent SUCKS - - we can do better. Steve did - - who's next?? Steve, Ron, Someone ???

    Cheers, Hank
     
  13. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

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    #13 snj5, May 22, 2012
    If I ever get my grey/green Euro Mondial t coupe I am going to re-start my center panel biz and add the center vent. A few years ago I had designed in CAD a center vent piece that used three of the round side vents - or for you cheapos like me, just buy one and use the two from the back and cover it with a block off plate as no one ever used them anyway.
     
  14. HarfooT

    HarfooT Formula Junior

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    #14 HarfooT, May 22, 2012
    Bump for solution...
     
  15. ronfrohock

    ronfrohock F1 Rookie
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    #15 ronfrohock, May 24, 2012
    Does anyone have a Cora's vent that I could look at?
    The tooling to produce this would likely be in the thousands, from $7000.00 to $10,000.
    I would suspect that the market would support a cost of $200.00 each???
    You would need to sell fifty units to likely break even..... Does not sound like a safe bet.

    Hank has been asking me to look at this for a while now. The only possible low cost solution that I have defined is machining a wedge that would be sandwiched between the existing vent that the dash that would allow the vent to be repositioned. I will have another look at this over the weekend as I have my car back from storage.

    I really would like to find another part to produce as I sincerely enjoy providing a robust solution to a consistent problem.

    Thanks
    Ron Frohock
     
  16. Valenzo

    Valenzo F1 Veteran

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    #16 Valenzo, May 24, 2012

    If you can do that tooling for that little, you're good and we should talk! I just had a single cavity injection mold done for a rubber grip and that cost me $19,000.00.
     
  17. hank sound

    hank sound F1 Veteran

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    #17 hank sound, May 24, 2012
    Well Ron - there ya go, mate - - - Incorporate "the wedge" into the existing vent. If the cost of going in one direction is prohibitive, than simply change direction - - and bla, bla etc.

    As I see it, every single world wide Mondial owner that uses their A/C, will benefit from an upgraded center vent. It's a product waiting to happen. I have my own products waiting to happen so, I can't take this one on. But........ I know someone that can :):):) Ron - "Airwedge" is the buzz word.

    Have a great holiday weekend,

    Hank
     
  18. Valenzo

    Valenzo F1 Veteran

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    #18 Valenzo, May 24, 2012
    Ah Hank, another genius mind. "airwedge" thats brilliant, you need to get that trademarked. Looking forward to those CL pics. :)

    I wish I knew what you guys were talking about regarding this vent problem, I guess in time I will.
     
  19. davebdave

    davebdave Formula 3
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    #19 davebdave, May 24, 2012
    I think I can answer this: My wife is Italian and I can tell you that Italians hate to have cold air blowing on their person. Americans, on the other hand, want a full blast of arctic air right in their face. Unfortunately, the center vent in the Mondial only blows air downward and if you tilt the louvers up it cuts the flow of air. However, both my wife and I agree that the factory center vent looks cheap and betrays the otherwise luxurious interior. I kick myself for not buying the aluminum upgrade when I had the chance. One day I will either have one made or buy one from the next clever entrepreneur the manufactures them.

    Dave
     
  20. Valenzo

    Valenzo F1 Veteran

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    #20 Valenzo, May 24, 2012
    Thank you Dave, I understand now. I'll look at this closer when I get my car back. My company is in the casting of non ferrous metals, i.e. aluminum, brass, bronze, copper, zinc and so on. We have a pattern shop that we are closely aligned with, I'll look into the feasibility of what can be done with what we can do.

    -Ted.
     
  21. davebdave

    davebdave Formula 3
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    #21 davebdave, May 24, 2012
    Sweet. I find myself looking in the windows of cars to see if I can find a vent style that would suit itself for a home-made replacement. I have a friend with a mill who could make something out of a block of aluminum. However, for multiple production, a casting would seem ideal.

    Dave
     
  22. Max4HD

    Max4HD Formula 3

    Jun 20, 2006
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    #22 Max4HD, May 25, 2012
    Just a thought, has anyone tried popping the vent assembly out and flipping it around so the airflow is direct up rather than down?

    Cheers
     
  23. ronfrohock

    ronfrohock F1 Rookie
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    #23 ronfrohock, May 25, 2012
    Valenzo
    I was thinking prototype molds like Kirksite. Or silicone with a tough urethane.... Volume is low. Numbers were just a rough estimate but I think they are fairly accurate. More importantly, from a business sense - is it a wise investment.
    While I'm not trying to have a large profit margin, a profit margin is necessary.
    Thanks
    - Ron Frohock
     
  24. davem

    davem F1 World Champ
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    #24 davem, May 25, 2012
  25. Ricambi America

    Ricambi America F1 World Champ
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    #25 Ricambi America, May 25, 2012
    I looked at this a million different ways. The market is small. The price tolerance is lower. The tooling to do it properly is quite high. And most importantly, the 'period correct' BMW vents were simply not available.

    Luckily a huge percentage of Mondials are rag tops. :)
     
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