Mondial Backfire & Idle Problems | FerrariChat

Mondial Backfire & Idle Problems

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by Vito, Jul 16, 2007.

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  1. Vito

    Vito Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed Silver Subscribed

    Apr 29, 2004
    480
    Dutchess County, NY
    My '82 Mondial 8 has recently developed a problem with the idle speed for which I am in need of some assistance. Two weeks ago the car's idle speed dropped wush that it would stall if the engine speed wasn't kept up by pressing the accelerator. I adjusted the idle speed with the throttle position screw & idle speed knob. All seemed well. Then last week, during a ride the car backfired upon being restarted. This was hot start. Then the idle speed would stay up to about 2500 rpm for a minute & then drop to about 500 - 700. When pressing the accelerator pedal to move away from a stop light for example, the car would backfire several times until the engine speed was up over 2000 rpm. Then it would run fine. This evening I checked the spark plug extensions looking for a cracked extension that might be shorting out inside the plug hole. All were OK. I did some more adjusting with the idle speed knob & throttle position screw. When fully warmed up the idle speed seems to settle down to about 500 - 750, a bit low. Press the gas & rev it up to 2000 - 3000 & it stays there for a minute or so & then drops back to the lower speed. Upon accelerating, it backfires about 25% of the time. Any other suggestions would be appreciated.
     
  2. bergxu

    bergxu Formula 3

    Aug 16, 2005
    1,307
    OnTheSerpentMound
    Full Name:
    Aaron
    Sounds like maybe a bad Digiplex ground..
     
  3. copterjon

    copterjon Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 11, 2005
    1,541
    Mesa, Az.
    Possible fuse box problem. Do search on fuse boxes there's plenty to read. Your next parts order might be with Birdman. Good luck and keep us posted.
     
  4. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 4, 2001
    36,433
    Birmingham, AL
    Full Name:
    Tommy
    If your tach dies and you lose an entire bank, it is a flywheel sensor. Mine went bad but it started out like your car.
     
  5. wolftalk

    wolftalk Formula Junior

    Jan 27, 2004
    367
    san franciso area
    Full Name:
    phil
    The guys above already mentioned some of the common causes, and you checked the extenders, so I'll add the coil/plug wires themselves (how old are they?), the connectors between the digiplexes and the coils, vacuum leak, and contaminated fuel. Much less commonly a coil.

    definitely not the idle speed or throttle position setting...that's just somewhat masking the problem.

    probably the easiest thing to do is get a timing light or those cheap in-line spark testers and check the spark on each cylinder and on the coil wire.

    if the problem is on one bank, yank the coil secondary wire from the coil and check for corrosion. Also check the primary wires for loose fit or corrosion.

    Then search for how to test the flywheel sensor for that bank (best to do it from the digiplex connector so you also check the other connectors in the circuit).

    testing the coil can be done by swapping the coils. Pay attention to the wire colors.

    if the problem is intermittent on both banks, the digiplex grounds are a good bet.

    disclaimer: the above applies to the 308 only. The 328 has a single ecu, one flywheel TDC sensor and electronic modules on top of the coils. The primary ignition testing procedures and common failures are different.
     
  6. Vito

    Vito Formula Junior
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    Apr 29, 2004
    480
    Dutchess County, NY
    I've tried disconnecting the fast idle switch at the collant reservoir tank, cleaning the contacts & then patching across the 2 female plugs with a jump wire. All of that made no a difference. The engine runs at about 2500 RPM for a few minutes & then drops to about 500 - 750 RPM. Rev it back up & the cycle repeats itself. However, the backfire seems to be less frequent now.
     
  7. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

    Jun 20, 2003
    6,689
    North shore, MA
    Full Name:
    THE Birdman
    It sounds like a vacuum leak.

    Birdman
     
  8. Vito

    Vito Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed Silver Subscribed

    Apr 29, 2004
    480
    Dutchess County, NY
    Any suggestions where the leak might be or where to start looking? Thanks
     
  9. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

    Jun 20, 2003
    6,689
    North shore, MA
    Full Name:
    THE Birdman
    My Mondi was doing the same sort of thing, though not as bad. It would only settle down to 2K idle at a light. If I used the clutch to slow the engine to 1,000 RPM, it would stay there until I blipped the throttle, then settle at 2,000 again. I never did definitively identify the problem. I replaced vacuum hoses, lubed the VLV and put it back together. Problem was gone. So it WAS a vacuum leak somewhere. I can only suggest that you poke around, look for something unhooked or a ratty looking hose. These things have a bunch of vacuum hoses and any one of them could cause it.

    If you have disabled the fast idle, make sure none of those hoses have an open end.

    I also had a couple years ago a bad crank sensor which was causing the car to malfunction, but not backfire. It would stumble, or lose power, then come back. I didn't figure it out until another fchatter riding in the car noticed that the tach went nuts when it happened. I looked at the schematic and saw that the tach was driven off only one of the digiplexes which showed that it was the crank sensor on that digiplex.

    Birdman
     
  10. dakharris

    dakharris Two Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 7, 2001
    29,441
    Sleepy Hollow
    Full Name:
    Cavaliere Senzatesta
    Vacuum leak. Also check your extenders and spark plug wires to make sure everything is snug.
     
  11. Vito

    Vito Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed Silver Subscribed

    Apr 29, 2004
    480
    Dutchess County, NY
    I've treid all of the things mentioend so far - vacuum leaks, digiplex boxes, throttle cable, floor mats, digiplex ground, etc. - and the problem continues. The flywheel sensors have been checked & they're showing the proper ohm resistence. Swapping the digiplex boxes made no difference as did substituing different boxes. The sense is that the 5-8 bank is shutting down when the motor drops into the low idle mode but then comes back on when the rpm's are increased. The motor stays in high idle for a few minutes before it drops back to the 500 rpm range (and running on the 1-4 bank only). Any other thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
     
  12. Vito

    Vito Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed Silver Subscribed

    Apr 29, 2004
    480
    Dutchess County, NY
    The problem turned out to be bad (old, corroded) connections in the wiring for the 1-4 bank of cylinders. Once all of the connections were taken apart, cleaned, treated with Stabillant & put back together, all works fine. The car just did a brisk 25+ mile run & it's good...not a hint of a problem. So, lesson learned - old Italian electrics need careful & close attention.
     

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