mondial compared 911sc

Having owned both I will say:

Porsche much smaller than Mondial; interior of Porsche much more cramped and crowded.
911 seat is better than the Mondial, but the rest of the Mondial interior is superior
Ventilation and a/c better in the Mondial
Defroster (my pet peeve in sports cars) FAR superior in Mondial
911 quieter than the Mondial
Low end torque better in the Porsche as it is lighter; Mondial better wound out
Electrical system better in the Porsche
Mondial can carry much more stuff
911 better driving in tighter parking areas than the Mondial
Handling and ride quality in both extremely dependant on tire choice.

 

Porsche 911 is not a midengine car.

 

I owned a 964 C4 when I also owned the 365 and the 8. Once I bought the 8, I knew the 964 was not going to stay around long. The seating position is better in the 911 with less offset as the Mondial, but the Ferrari offered a much more involving drive than the Porsche. The Pbug was a fast car, but it just didn't feel all that special, driving the Mondial still feels like you need to be paying attention to go faster, but even at low speeds, it feels like it isn't an appliance. If you let either sit for long periods of time without driving them, both will suffer.

 

Even though its been about 20 years since my last 911, I can tell you that from a satisfaction standpoint, there is no comparison. My 1982 911sc Targa was my second Porsche (first was a 1976 last-year production 914 bought in 1985, and last was a 1986 944 Turbo bought in 1991) and everytime I looked at it I wished it were a Ferrari. I've never looked at either Ferrari I've owned and said to myself ''wow, I wish I had a Porsche''. I may be wrong person to ask but I've never liked the 911. Believe me, I've tried. If I had, it would have been much less expensive over the years in terms of aquisition and maintenance costs compared with some cars I've owned and lost money on, but I never warmed up to them. First, the gearshift is from a Mack truck. Now I know they got better over the years especialy with the 964 model onwards, but the SC had the long throw/rubber shift boot shifter and I really disliked it. The brakes were absolutely incredible, I will hand that to Porsche and much better in feel (I feel) over my 1983 308 GTSi, and probably equal to my 1989 Mondial T Coupe. I think Ferrari brakes took a big upswing in the late 1980's. The handling is what I never warmed up to. I found the front end bouncy and after the 914, felt the car rode too high. I maybe in the minority who think that 911s look like frogs, not a pretty car, certainly nothing compared to Pininfarina's designs. I drove my 308 once right after switching cars with my brother in law who had a 1986 911 and wanted to see what my car felt like. I instantly thought how much better my car felt and handled. He told me the thing that struck him was how much his 911 handled and felt better, so its a judgment call.

Then there is the sound............................
Even a Mondial 8 sounds better than any 911, IMHO. The whirring sound of the flat-6 is cool, but it's just not the same thing. The Italian-ness of the interiors, which is where you spend your time, is just so much more interesting and charismatic than the 911.

My 911 needed lot of work so my experience may not be indictive of what most go through but my Ferraris require less to maintain than the 911 and certainly much less than my 944 Turbo did. Parts for Porsches are not cheap and neither is good serviced. However, my experience was probably not really what most go through because, as I said, my car was not really vetted as much as it should have been.

There are some cars whose values astound me, like my Mondial T Coupe of which only 43 were brought into the country. I think these are grossly undervalued cars and I personally would have one of them before any 308 or 328 that came before it. Just my own opinion. I believe it is a more desireable car (to me) than a 328 or even 348. No flames, just my opinion. I love the longitudinal motor, the 348-like rawness but in a longer wheelbase and spacious interior and elegant non-boy racer looks. Again, just my opinion. I also think that BMW 850's are undervalued as are 365 GTC/4s. Some cars that I think are selling for crazy money compared to what they are really worth (the market determines it, yes, but sometimes some people with too much money and free time on their hands create bubbles which I don't really want to be a part of) are some muscle cars, 1970s/80s Astons, 914-6s, and most (especially early) 911s. To me there really should be no way that a 1989 911 should be worth the same as a 1989 ANY model Ferrari. I can't understand it. But you can find good condition 911's for that year selling for $25-$35k and a comparable Mondial selling for the same amount with similar mileage (with the mentality that a 70,000 mile 911 has very low miles and a 70,000 mile Mondial has a huge amount of miles on it).

Hope I've given a little insight into it as I've owned both cars. Maybe I'm just not a Porsche guy and someone else who like both cars can chime in, but for me, its comparing apples and caviar. While paying caviar prices for both.

 

I owned a deep ruby red 911 S/C coupe for nine years (with polished wheels). I really liked it (obviously) and can say it was a great experience. I put 100k miles on it, rebuilt the tranny three times (twice because I drag raced it) and rebuilt the engine too (got 225 HP out of it on the dyno). It was a very good car (sport seats, updated A/C, turbo tail, 9 inch Fuch wheels), and again I really liked it a lot. I have owned my deep Prugna red Mondial t coupe for many years now too (with polished wheels). I have driven it 10k miles, rebuilt the tranny once (damn 349/Mondi t bearings) and performed one major.

I can concur with several statements above about the machine. The Mondi is larger inside, its seats are not near as comfortable as the 911, and the "appliance" feel is not there with the Mondial t. The Ferrari really does feel special when I drive it. Whereas the 911 really was just a great car that I liked driving.

I like them both, and feel fortunate that I even got the chance to own either.

 

I love my Mondi 3.2, but having had 10 or so 911s (SCs and Carreras) over the past 20 years, I can tell you they are brilliant cars.

The packaging is very efficient, the back seat room is the same or better than a Mondial, the luggage capacity is about the same, but the 911 is much smaller and MUCH lighter.

The 911 during those years was one of the most finely engineered and constructed car on the planet. There are many with 200, 300, 400,000 or more miles on them. The leather interiors look good and last almost forever if they are given even minimal care.

They have the greatest steering feel of any car ever made. Same for the brakes. A 911 is a great braking car.

They have been raced more successfully than just about any other car, in various states (from near stock to highly modified).

They are incredibly reliable and very economical to operate for a high level sports car.

Direct comparison to a Mondi? I don't think there really is too much. The 911 is a point and shoot, light, tossable, capable of being driven every day sports car. The Mondi, at least to me, is a big cruiser. As open cars, a 911 Targa or Cab (esp. Targa) is much stiffer than a Mondi cab. The big difference in weight makes for a very different driving experience.

 

This is a great thread and there are some realy good observations on here.
Having had a 911 ('77 3.0 Carerra - similar enough I guess) and now my Mondial, not much has been said about running costs. I found that my Porsche was just as expensive to run as the Ferrari. Sure, many service items on the Porsche are very cheap, but if you have any major mechanical, body or trim issues, the bills will rack up and be comparable.

Driving wise, I would say that the Porsche was a car that I loved to thrash (and the car loved to be trashed!), the steering & suspension were sublime and as already commented, I think the best steering in the world (or on a par with a Lotus). The Ferrari is more a sense of occasion and I drive it no-where near as hard (maybe I'm just getting old?).

Design & Build quality is also interesting and in my humble opinion not too dissimilar. The Mondial is only let down poor electrics, minor trim quality and some chassis paint & corrosion protection issues. Total design, I think the Mondial is a better package that the 911.

Overall, this is a second, classic car and as such, after all reasoning (and taking into account personal minimum requirements from said vehicle) I choose with my heart over my head - therefore it will always be the Mondial. However, as a daily driver, I think it would be the other way round!

 

Enough said!

 

Just wanted to add that my impressions that I posted above are based on a Mondial T (Coupe) so you may want to take that into consideration when comparing it to all Mondials. The T's were a big improvement over earlier cars (no flames, please) with 911 Turbo power/performance and a lower center of gravity due to non-transverse engine layout which improved handling. Also, better brakes and IMO, better looks, more modern inerior, etc.

 

It's not a forbidden subject, but we can't decide for you. You have to experience it. On paper, Ferraris have never made much sense. After you drive a Ferrari, though, everything else feels kind of staid. To generalise: engineering fans tend to like the businesslike precision of the old 911s (prior to the 996). Romantics tend to like the passion and drama of Ferraris. Wealthy car fans tend to have bigger garages so they can have both. Bottom line is that Ferraris are exotic cars, and Porsches are not. There are a lot of reasons NOT to own an exotic car, but you do get something in an exotic that you don't in a mass-produced BMW, Merc or Porsche.

First, if you are a car enthusiast you should try an air-cooled Porsche 911. From the comments you can see that many Ferrari owners previously had a Porsche. I had a Porsche 993 (1996) prior to my Ferrari 328, and there's no doubt the Porsche was easier to use every day. They make the right noises, and the build quality through 1998 was remarkable (with some problems in 1990-1994).

Ferrari has been hit or miss on design/build quality, but the Mondial 3.2 or 328 GTS/GTB were a good era for the marque. Reliability should be good, but maintenance will be at Ferrari prices, which some (very sane) people can't accept.

Also, if you haven't sat in the rear "seats" of a 911, try it before you classify the car with the Mondial. I would say the more direct comparison for the 911 is with the 328 sports car. The Mondial is a much longer car, and while the back seats aren't exactly limousine calibre it is possible that someone could sit back there. The 911s I've been in have rear "seats" suitable for young children.

Right, it is rear-engined, except when you hit the brakes in a tight, fast corner, when it becomes front-engined with rear-facing seats.

 

I can't comment on the feel of a Mondial but on the 328, which I would think has a similar steering setup at the Mondial (the 3.2 Mondial has the same size wheels), the steering is gloriously simple and very direct. It is very heavy at parking speeds but anything over 5 mph, the steering feel is one of the best things about the car. Not razor sharp, but it has a very direct feel that you won't get in new (Modial T and newer) cars.

-F

 

Sorry, I had to...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u5OpqDRNV4

Not on Mondial, but close.

James in Denver

 

Absolutely agree. It's the best I've ever had on a car I've owned.

 

Still think this is funny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Sf7XVsYh1Q&feature=related

 

Brilliant!!

 

As someone who loves and has owned several different 911s that was hard to stomach. At least Clarkson has been consistent in his hatred for the 911 over the years.

 

That clip ALWAYS bears reposting

As well as the ripoff similar scene from Entourage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sru24waDtvw
Not nearly as much car choreography but still a classic.

Jedi

 

Is it me or does the audio track from the 308 sound more like a V12 than a V8?

 

As one who was on track to succumb to purchasing a Porsche, I must say that my dilemma was between a 911 vs. a Cayman. I loved the balance of the Cayman over the 911 whose front end seemed to be bouncy by comparison. Yes the 911 had more grunt and charisma, but the tossibility of the Cayman kept beckoning me. The Mondi stumbled into view and snapped it up in a heartbeat. Truth be known the Mondi, to me anyway, feels more balanced than the 911 and much like a larger, heavier version of the Cayman.

So I am happy to be wearing red....

Brock

 

I have both a 911sc and a mondial in the garage and drive both pretty frequently. True, the 911 doesn't have the more exotic flair of the mondial but I can tell you that the 911 sc (particularly the '80-'83) are very highly engineered and precise machines and provide a very satisfying experience. I work on my cars - everything from engine rebuilds to body work to electrics and I can tell you (IMHO) that the 911 is hands and shoulders above the mondial in terms of engineering finess and integrity. It's simply a much better designed and built car. A reasonably well maintained 911sc is very, very reliable - many have gone 200,000+ miles without so much as a valve job. Some have gone 300,000 miles w/o the engine ever coming out of the car. Not many 80's ferrari's make it past 100,000 miles without a top or bottom end rebuild.

1. Electrics - 911 is way, way better.
2. Body - 911s had good galvanizing by about '76 and the bodies are fairly rust resistent (unlike the mondial).
3. Interior - mondial is more lavish, 911 is pretty spartan but highly functional. 911 is a small interior by maybe 15-20%.
4. Engine - 911 engine puts out about the same hp as the mondi but feels torquier (partly because it's a lighter car).
5. Brakes - 911, 'nuf said.
6. Steering - 911 is very precise and light, even at low speeds. Not so for the mondi.
7. Modifications - you can easily get a lot more hp/torque out of the 911sc engine (SSI exhaust and 2-in/2-out muffler) but not so much out of the mondi engine. The 911 suspension is easily upgraded/tuned, and at modest cost. Not so with the mondial.
8. Styling flair and wind-in-your-hair appeal - mondi, 'nuf said.
9. Parts costs - 911 stuff is half or less than the mondi.

Really quite different cars but both are hugely appealing. They're so cheap to buy right now (and such a good bargain) I figure why not get both???

 

I'm the same, do all my work. I agree with all of your post. Those who work on the cars are the ones who can appreciate the 911 the most, IMO. They are a joy to work on, where you can see, touch and feel the engineering and build quality.