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Mondial Coupe

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by JOEL D., Nov 10, 2003.

  1. JOEL D.

    JOEL D. Karting

    Nov 2, 2003
    222
    Boston, MA
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    Joel DeLuca
    Does anybody know of anyone selling a late 3.2 or T Mondial Coupe?
    Any direction would be greatly appreciated.
     
  2. TOM B

    TOM B Formula 3

    Jul 24, 2003
    1,038
    Orange County, NY
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    Thomas Buckley
    Joel,
    I'd stay away from the Mondial t. 3.2's '87--'88 are the best. I've got an '88 Mondial Coupe.


    Tom
     
  3. JOEL D.

    JOEL D. Karting

    Nov 2, 2003
    222
    Boston, MA
    Full Name:
    Joel DeLuca
    Tom,

    I am not new to Ferraris, I have a 328 and a Boxer, but I would be interested to know what th eknock on T's are as you are not he first to mention it?

    Joel
     
  4. Ron328

    Ron328 Formula 3
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    Mar 10, 2003
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    Ron
    One thing I know is an engine out major service for the t. I have a Forza article (Mondial Coupe Buyer's Guide); send me a PM if you're interested. I can fax or photocopy the article.

    Ron
     
  5. MondialTCab

    MondialTCab Formula 3

    Sep 5, 2001
    1,020
    Pacific Northwest
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    John Michael Gross
    I'm curious Tom...why stay away from the Mondial T? It does everything the 3.2 does...only better!
     
  6. vince308

    vince308 Formula 3

    May 23, 2003
    1,303
    belgium
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    vincent
    The Mondial T is a perfect modern car and i didn't have any major problems until now.

    greetings, vincent
     
  7. MondialTCab

    MondialTCab Formula 3

    Sep 5, 2001
    1,020
    Pacific Northwest
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    John Michael Gross
    Engine out? So what...the performance and handling are a significant upgrade over the previous models and the blistered fenders are cleaner IMHO. Not knocking the previous models but a lot of what folks write about the T is bunk. Every owner I have talked to has had nothing but great experiences with them...

    - JMG
     
  8. EnzoNZ

    EnzoNZ F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 9, 2001
    2,580
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    Andrew Wass
    I've got a t Coupe and rate it over the 3.2 in all aspects . I had the opportunity to drive a 3.2 Cab and definitely prefer mine. For what it's worth - my engine is coming out in the next few weeks as I have developed badly leaking cam seals. The timing is good as the cambelt is sort of due. While the engines out the cambelt,tensioner, front crankshaft seal & drive belts will be done. Doing the cam seals results in camcover gaskets as well.(The usual filters etc will also be done). Parts, as priced are about $NZ1,300.

    Cheers
    Andrew in NZ
     
  9. vince308

    vince308 Formula 3

    May 23, 2003
    1,303
    belgium
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    vincent
    sorry, no major problem, nothing, nada.
    My english is sometimes not perfect.
    I love my Mondial T, my baby.........
     
  10. Modificata

    Modificata F1 Rookie
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    Apr 27, 2003
    2,650
    Hampton, England
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    Andy Rasool
    The way that I see it is maintenance costs are not too big an issue (in ferrari terms) go for the Mondial t. Faster and more refined. If the running costs are of concern, then the 3.2 is better.

    Of course depends on your budget for buying the car in the first place too!
     
  11. Ron328

    Ron328 Formula 3
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    Mar 10, 2003
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    Ron
    Wasn't knocking the t at all. It was one of the models I considered
    and still love to this day. But just to answer Joel's question, I thought
    an engine out service may be a "disadvantage" (if at all) in terms of cost. That's all.
     
  12. Jet-X

    Jet-X F1 Veteran
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    Nov 2, 2003
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    Brian
    The knock against a t is it's an '89 (only year imported into the U.S.) and it had Motronic 2.5 which had problems (and a reputed 5-10 less HP than the 300HP listed; rectified with Motronic 2.7 in mid-90 and later cars).

    As for engine out service on a t, I had an engine out service on a 3.2 and it wasn't any cheaper.

    There is a t coupe, overpriced, but at www.newportautosport.com right now
     
  13. EnzoNZ

    EnzoNZ F1 Rookie
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    Nov 9, 2001
    2,580
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    Andrew Wass
    I agree that the t at www.newportautosport.com is overpriced - it was in FML last year and the asking price was $38,600. The 30k service they refer to was actually done in 2000.

    Regards
    Andrew in NZ
     
  14. MondialTCab

    MondialTCab Formula 3

    Sep 5, 2001
    1,020
    Pacific Northwest
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    John Michael Gross
    I am trying not to argue the point but can you point to specific problems with the 2.5 unit? Agree that it was mentioned in the Forza review but in real world use, I suspect you will find most Ts delivered actually run the 2.5 unit (89 was peak delivery year) and witness this and other threads, most T owners are happy. I have owned both a 2.7 and 2.5 equipped T Cab and prefer the 89 due to the lack of those silly NHTSA mandated mouse belts and knee bolsters. (Let's face it...any space given up in any Mondial year is significant.)

    The point that most people miss is that the T is a significantly different car than the previous Mondials. The change in drivetrain alone lowers the engine 5 inches which in turn lowers the COG a significant amount and this improves the driving dynamics before you factor in the increased power. The adjustable suspension allows for both track-like response when desired and around town cruising when not. Standard power steering and ABS (which some 3.2s have) further extend the capabilities vs. previous models.

    So why do people miss these changes? I suspect this has mostly to do with the lack of significant styling changes made to the models. (To wit, the 348 doesn't suffer from the same comparisons with the 328/308 series.)

    In this vein, the T is clearly a sleeper and as we were able to show in this year's FCR rally, a fairly competitive modern machine. (We finished as high as 4th and never finished lower than 8th out of 53 cars in the special stages where fastest wins. Factor out the Enzo and the vintage models and we were as high as 3rd of 47 facing 575s, 550s, 360s, 355s, 456s and various TRs.) Would the result change with equal drivers? Of course, as I have track experience and others most likely did not but clearly the T has some cahones to get up near the top.

    That all being said, please (and I beg you this in light of the many other nasty threads on FChat) don't take this in the wrong light. I love all of my Mondial brethern all the way back to the 8. They each have their benefits to the persepctive owner be it cost of acquisition, maintenance or appreciation of the various body styles. IMHO, it takes a special Ferrari owner to purchase and drive a 2+2 when most turn their noses up on them as cars not worthy of the marque. In effect, we are a select club within a club and we get to share that with 3 friends! I like to call mine the ultimate family Cabriolet...

    - JMG
     
  15. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
    10,213
    San Antonio
    Full Name:
    Russ Turner
    I feel all fuzzy :)

    They are all great Ferraris. The GT/4s and Mondials are the best ever small Grand Tourismo cars in the true sense. And they continue to get better with age.

    Get what you like the best.

    best
    rt
     
  16. sjmst

    sjmst F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jul 31, 2003
    9,760
    Long Island, NY
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    Sam
    JMG: I am looking to "trade up" to either a 3.2 or a T, eventually.
    I know the T has the smaller side intakes, Power Steering, ABS and nicer dash, as well as the engine changes. I was originally thinking 3.2 because I thought it would be cheaper to maintain.
    My specific question is about the shifter. Was there a change for the Mondial in linkage, and how does it feel?
    Thanks
    Sam
     
  17. MondialTCab

    MondialTCab Formula 3

    Sep 5, 2001
    1,020
    Pacific Northwest
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    John Michael Gross
    The linkage did change, hence the T in the name for the transverse mounting of the tranny. I have driven the 3.2 Cab, T Cab and the T Valeo and they all felt similar. Bulky second gear when cold but sharp response otherwise. In both of my Ts, the shifting performance improved with regular use (daily drivers both) and Redline oils when serviced. I was told that the AGIP oils provide exceptional shifting but they have not been available when I was changing.

    Overall, I have found they all shift well when warm and when you are committed to changing a gear ie quick shifting. The only thing I did not like about the Valeo is it simply felt weird not to push a clutch while shifting. I suspect this would go away rather quickly.

    Another thing you should consider is the seating. I found the 3.2 seats somewhat uncomfortable when driven for more than an hour (I have a bad back) whereas the T seats seemed more supportive. However, I also found the T seat rather narrow for my arse. (Insert comment here...) To fix this, I had the driver side modified by taking down the metal supports in the hip bolsters and replacing with racing seat foam. Just enough give to feel great, stock look otherwise.

    - JMG
     
  18. Jet-X

    Jet-X F1 Veteran
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    Nov 2, 2003
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    Brian
    I wasn't basing my post on Forza, but in dealing with three different mechanics that work on the cars. And mind you, their opinions didn't have to do with just '89 Mondials, but '89 348's as well. Anything with a MoTronic 2.5 was labeled a nightmare. At one point I even asked about buying an '89 and retrofitting with a 2.7 and the mechanic basically said "let's not go there..."

    I can't remember all the details, but I do recall seeing the records for one Mondial t coupe that had in essence $30k worth of service work on it mostly because of the Motronic unit. And thankfully the car was still under warranty w/Ferrari costing the owner only headaches.

    But having three different mechanics talk about everything from power loss to hot starting issues, to not starting at all, to (insert problem) and telling me repeatedly to stay away from '89s made me do just that. To those that aren't having or ever had problems, fantastic! That really is great. But in talking with owners and mechanics, those that praise the '89 8 cylinders with Motronic 2.5 are rarer than those that had problems.

    To each his own, but my info is coming from mechanics and not written stigma surrounding the '89 (i.e. 'Urban Legend')
     
  19. Modificata

    Modificata F1 Rookie
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    Apr 27, 2003
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    Andy Rasool
    I agree with a lot of what JMG has to say. I've been reading a lot about the Mondials, and the differences. The T is definately the best, but it all comes down to budget. Go with what you can afford, and if its the T, then buy the T.

    The 3.2 (and other models) are great too. Cheaper to buy and run.
     
  20. Allen S.

    Allen S. Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 16, 2001
    497
    Morgan Hill, CA
    Full Name:
    Allen / AKA tCoupe
    I say that "Newportautosport" t Coupe will be a great value. It looks clean with only 17k mi. and will need no 30K service until 2005. That car is fast. A good F-driver will take it and have loads of fun!! for the $.
     
  21. Mondial T Driver

    Nov 21, 2003
    8
    Tom B
    I drive a mondial t, I have also driven the 3.2. The mondial T is far superior. The electronic, suspension, looks, interior, power etc are much better. The 348 engine which is fitted in the T is great! I am assuming that you have never driven a T to compare the two.

    Thanks
    Steve
     
  22. Mondial T Driver

    Nov 21, 2003
    8
    Hi
    I would suggest that you buy the lastest mondial T that you can afford. Many changes to the engines were made during the 89-93 period

    Thanks
    Steve
     
  23. TOM B

    TOM B Formula 3

    Jul 24, 2003
    1,038
    Orange County, NY
    Full Name:
    Thomas Buckley

    Steve,
    You're correct. I've never driven a "t" but I did sit in one. The extra 2" in width made an amazing improvement in driver position over the 3.2. The more advanced electronics are probably a plus in handling but I fear that any increase in electronic compexity would spell frustration for the mechanic in me. As for looks, I much prefer the larger engine intakes of the 3.2. Just personal preference.

    When searching for my Mondial 3 years ago, I knew I wanted a coupe as it was to be my daily driver. The "t" coupe was only imported into the U.S in 1989. Only 40 made it in. The only one I could find was priced at 47,000. I got my 3.2 Coupe for 30,000. I've also heardthat the 2.5 Motronic can be very troublesome.

    In summary, I like the "t", it just didn't fit what I was looking for as well as the 3.2. One other thing------when maneuvering in tight quarters, I find myself wishing for the t's power steering.

    Mondials-------one of the few Ferraris that would let you share the ride with the Dixie Chicks-----all at once.


    Tom
     
  24. Slomo

    Slomo Karting

    Nov 22, 2003
    145
    Bellevue, WA
    Full Name:
    David Chambers
    To play pile-on, I am also looking for a 3.2 Coupe. I need 4 seats so the little kids can ride in the F car with Daddy, (and Mommy too, I guess..). I would gladly accept a T, but they all seem out of my budget. As I plan on it being a nearly-daily driver of 7-10K per year, a lower cost of entry seems to be a good idea, so that I can afford some service at the dealer when I can't do my own repairs.

    Did anyone see the article in the Wall Street Journal about the "Cheapest Ferrari", it was kind of cool.

    DC
     
  25. davem

    davem F1 Veteran
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    Jan 21, 2002
    5,119
    Stepford, Connecticut
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    dave m
    Slomo. Love to see that article from WSJ.
    I believe the price gap is narrowing between 3.2's an "T"s.
     

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