Hello I am new to ferrarichat. I signed up because I wanted some ferrari enthusiasts to guide me a little bit. My problem is: I want to buy a cheap ferrari and the only one that fits my budget is Mondial. A friend of mine said that he knows someone who owns a Mondial QV and as a first price(negotiable) he said 18000. My question is, is the QV a good model, will I enjoy it as a ferrari? Maintenance is no problem to me because I know many engineers and that's the least of my problems. I have yet to see the car(soon enough I will). I will obviously check the car for any serious problems but I don not think there will be any. Should I even consider buying a QV or should I search for the T? I am planning to use it as an everyday car and what I mean is, going from point A to point B, simple stuff but this will be the only car I will have. Additional info is: Apparently my first ferrari Budget up to 20k something Maintenance costs not really a problem Thanks in advance for your valuable help!!!
Don't underestimate maintenance/repair costs. I'm thinking more repair than maintenance. They can be a very big problem even if you know engineers. Parts costs can be high. A well sorted QV is a great car and can be very reliable. But if a real problem arises it can take months potentially to get parts together and a competent mechanic. I wanted to bring my car to a certain mechanic for a service and the wait was over 6 months. I can't think of any car from the 80's that I would want to rely on as a daily driver much less a small production run Italian exotic. But they are great cars and wonderful to drive. Would you want to drive an early 80's Alfa Romeo or Fiat daily based only on their reliability.
The Mondial is a great first Ferrari. I own an 85 QV Coupe. Here's a couple of thoughts: 1. There is no such thing as a "Cheap" Ferrari. However, in the context of other 30 year old cars, it's not really that much more expensive to own than any others. Especially if you can perform your own maintenance. 2. The QV model will likely be cheaper to maintain than the "T" model. For a couple of reasons. A) The timing belts (Ferrari says every 3 years/30,000miles) can be changed with the engine in the car. The "T" requires the engine to be removed. B) The QV has somewhat simpler systems. For example, the "T" has an electronically adjustable suspension. 3. Parts Availability - There seems to be a great many parts suppliers, and more are showing up frequently. As much of the car (Drivetrain, suspension) are shared with the 3x8 Ferraris, the Mondials benefit from sharing suppliers and parts. 4. Will you enjoy the car? That's a very subjective measure. I greatly enjoy mine. It's fun to drive and (to me) very comfortable. If you read most of the posts in this Mondial subforum, you will see that most people here really enjoy their Mondials. However, keep in mind that most of us here are Mondial enthusiasts. 5. Keep in mind that it is a 30 year old car. It will be in constant need of maintenance. Mostly small items. However, if that bothers you, then you probably won't enjoy the car. For me, that's part of the enjoyment. When something needs fixing, I enjoy working on the car. I think there are several posters here in this subforum that use their cars as Daily Drivers. They can probably give you a better perspective. I use my car as a weekend car. If this is to be your Daily Driver, you might want to consider some form of backup - maybe a motorcycle or an inexpensive modern car. Or if you live where there is good public transport (I don't) then you should have no worries. 6. There are a lot of good books out there on the V8 Ferraris. I purchased and read most of them before acquiring my car. They make very good research. I felt that I was very informed when I actually started looking at cars to purchase. Check Ebay, Amazon, etc. I searched for over a year before purchasing a Mondial. Before that, I had considered several different Ferrari models (308, 308GT4, 328, 348, 400). I settled on the Mondial for a couple of reasons - A) Backseat - More fun to take family along on rides. B) V8 instead of a V12 - easier for me to maintain. C) Major Engine service can be done with the engine in the car (this eliminated the 348 an the Mondial T). Once I had chosen the Mondial, I centered my search on a QV and a 3.2. When I found a QV that had a great maintenance history, and that drove well, I jumped on it. Haven't regretted it. The car is a blast to drive. Get a good inspection (PPI) done before you purchase. That way there will be no surprises, and more importantly for a daily driver - no downtime. Sid
By cheap I mean compared only to other Ferraris, not other cars. And from what I've read, Mondials really have lower costs than their cousins.
Hi Steve As it doesn't appear that English is the OPs first language, I interpreted "Cheap" as "low initial acquisition cost". Anyway, I agree with you on "cheap". Not just Ferrari, but there's no such thing as any form of "cheap" classic car. I own 4 classics (67 VW Karmann Ghia, 74 VW Karmann Ghia, 85 MB W123, 85 Ferrari Mondial QV coupe). None of them are "cheap". Even my VW's are expensive to maintain. Every replaced a convertible roof? I'm in the process. Parts alone for my 67 KB top run over $1000 - labor and top frame not included. Just the headline, padding, top, trim, bows, etc. was expensive to purchase. Sid
spend more money on a better example of a Mondial (or any Ferrari for that matter), rather than less money on a car that you have to dump money into to get it to the point where you have confidence in using the car as a daily driver. in any event, have a pre purchase inspection performed (ppi) by someone qualified. good luck.
Inspection is standard, there is no question in that. I said before that this will be my only car. Of course I have other means of transportation should anything happen like my family's cars so that is not a problem. I do not drive a lot that's why I refered to point a point b in my initial post. I just want something unusual, okay performance and something unique at the same time. The prancing horse is just icing on the cake. I do not drive often and far so my "everyday" from an other man's "everyday" differs. After some research I found that the mondial fits my needs and budget. Correct me if I'm wrong and I misinterpeted something.
Hello! Welcome! Mondials are great! 18k is slightly lower then the regular price for '83-'85 Mondials in Europe (continental Europe that is) and they can be a money pit.. If it is a French Mondial you probably can get away with it still since the price in France is still lower then in the rest of Europe, but in general consider this price of having a Mondial that has some lack of maintenance. In all honesty I would say your budget is too low if you want to do a major service and be able to drive. I have seen a lot of Mondials in Europe and they all need at least 3000 to 4000 euro to be able to drive without concerns or pass MOT. There are exceptions, but you would end up usually in a higher price category for a Mondial. Some maintenance is not urgent to do and some is. However, you would need to experience that. Just to give you an estimate. For me, and I encountered an issue with my clutch, my initial calculated costs were 2.200 euro.. But the clutch issue and a broken glass lens of the flashing light raised it to 4.000,- euro... ..it was needed to pass MOT. Or buy it and do things slowly. Have a look at my website. you will find some photo's Hope the Mondial is something for you! Best regards, Tijn
In your profile you can mention your website or blog. So I did Just started it recently so the content of the posts date back from Jun 2013 when I bought my Mondial. Slowly building it up.. Here it is. My Ferrari Mondial 3.2 - Sharing my experience about owning a Ferrari Mondial (3.2)
I am very glad to have bought my 3.2 almost two years ago and 9,500 miles. Two things went wrong. First was my responsibility since I used cheap Alpha clutch hydraulics. The entire system failed catastrophically from, I suspect, hydraulic resonance. And second, a $450 generic Boshce starter from a local shop. Local mechanic looked at 'birdmans' photo DIY and charged me $2,000 labor plus probably $1,500 rebuilt parts. It is the only car I drive routinely and I just get in, turn the key, and drive away. Hundreds of times. And everything about it either stays the same or gets better. The engine has gone from good to WAY good! Just don't treat it like a Fabrage egg. I live in the N. Georgia mountains and wore out first set of tires 6,000 miles. My favorite road is 12 miles with 65 turns. PS - The T requires engine out for water pump, but clutch is easier, I am told. I am also told the weight distribution in the earlier models makes for more docile handling. All the weight is in the center. I can vouch for my 3.2 since a lady turned right in front of me while I was going 50 mph. Full 90 degree left turn in about one second. Thats about 1G which sounds about right. Not one squiggle. And believe me, a two inch squiggle would have creased her entire drivers side.
Well, Rapalyea your situation is very similar to mine and you helped a lot. Some details though that i don's seem to find anywhere is CO2 emissions and consumption. Can you shed some light please?
Welcome! Remember, it can be said enough. Always pay more 'upfront' for a properly sorted Ferrari then buy a questionable 'fixer' at a deflated price. It's pretty easy process: 1) Take the car to a reputable PPI 2) They will quote you X price to repair for things Multiply this at LEAST by 2 (They will MISS things, and things usually break the first time these beasts are brought back to life from storage, non-use in the first 500 miles) 3) Add that X to the selling price 4) Expect at $5,000 a year of your buying price in maintenance the first few years (especially if the car has sat around for while) **** If the car has been properly maintained and driven regularly, it helps a lot! **** Most Mondials I see for sale on the lower end of the price spectrum have not been Driven or Maintained, so anything that will fail - does....things take 10X as long to fix and cost 10X what you expect from a 'regular' car. I am not exaggerating about the cost/time implications. If you can do the work yourself - all the better. I am assuming an 18K Mondial QV is priced because of point #2 above. Show the seller the cost of repairs and negotiate as necessary. Hope this helps.
Carbon build up is probably the most serious emission problem since it introduces unburned hydrocarbons. The continuous flow Bosch K-Jet is the proximate culprit since it sprites cold fuel into cold intake ports with valves closed. Two valve BMWs of the era were the worst and were cleaned out through introduction of crushed wallnuts. Our 4 valves are less sensitive but it took a lot of decarbon cleaner and some driving technics to get mine cleaned out. It had a sulfur smell when I got it and I used lots every kind of full system and cat cleaners for months. Also, NEVER warmed up at idle, and in my perfect warm up down my little mountain warmed up at 2,500 -3,000 rpm and routinely cruise at 3,000 and shift at 4,000 and the occasional sprint to 6,500 rpm full throttle. The engine runs like a humming bird. Also, the K-Jet has a mixture screw that opperates as I understand it, through the entire throttle range. In my car it is located on the side of the fuel distributor on the right rear. It is factory set and sealed but is easily broached. Mine is plugged up with some sort of detritus. It is never accessed while running since it vibrates up and down. The set screw is 4,5,6,or 7 mm, deep down, and it takes a good hand to both find it and seat the hex wrench. Bit wobbly. I believe counter clockwise is rich. My exhaust was a bit sulfur smell when delivered. When that went away with my decarbon regime I enrichened it 1/8 turn and still have no sulfure smell. Although recommended increments ar 1/8 turn at a time I believe the system is not over sensitive to it. Bell has one or two good videos on the fuel system and he shows the fuel distribution system, though I am not sure he identifed the mixture screw correctly the first time. But it is clearly shown with cover in place. Fuel economy ranges from 10mpg to 20mpg. Ten was achieve with herculean efforts with many 60-120 (indicated timed runs). However, it seems 3,000 rpm is the most volumetic efficent speed and I got 21 mpg at a steady 70mph actual. Typically I get about 16 mpg. About the same as my 1965 Corvair or 1988 supercharged Mark VII 5.0. I am something of a wreckless wrench and have all sorts of peculiar observations and am willing to offer all sorts of nonsense . And if you ever need to change out a front hydraulic clutch master? I did it twice. I would pay $500 to have someone else do it next time. It involves long 90 degree angled needle nose plyers and reinstalling the cotter key upside down with a self locking cotter key. You may require chiropractor services after but the job can be done.
PS: I have come to the tentative conclusion it is a good thing to drive these cars in cold weather and over rough roads as good exercise. Drove mine all Winter long. Even once at 15F. Went easy on that one since I run 20-50 oil. But these variations in temperature, humidity, wire jigling seem to keep the vehicle from going stale on me. Also, I am not the only to report various engine main bearing stop leaks are effective. Last fall my front main (or something) was letting oil out onto the exhaust headers to the extent I thought if might catch fire. I gathered about 1/2 dozen different stop leaks and there is not smoke. Further, my slow leak in the oil cooler has stabilized and perhaps decreased. Perhaps one quart every couple of tank fulls. It does not make a mess on the car itself, and I don't get oil smell. So might just live with it. Would not be the worst oil user I ever had. My autocross prepped 1974 Vega station wagon would light up the oil pressure light on hard right hand turn. Just added three quarts and drove on. I have experimented with oils and oil change intervals and weights and have come to the conclusion you need 5 psi oil pressure and forget about the rest. For instance, my 1965 Corvair engine was worn out the day I found it in 1979. But ran ok but lots of blow by. Figured I would get to it someday. I could not use 10/30 synthetic because the oil light came on. Ran the living bejezuss out of that car 30 years before finally overhauling it. Changed oil once every one or two years whether it needed it or not. At overhausl we miked the bearings. Every last one of them was equal and every last one of them was at the high tolerance of brand new. The 1991 5.0 supercharged Mark VII had 190,000 miles on it. Did not burn oil. Did not leak oil. Had no blow by. Generally changed oil with synthetic every 15,000 miles or so. Every 10,000 miles later on. Never drove that car without full throttle many times a day. That was always fun since I had silent mufflers on the car, a low stall speed truck torque converter and 2.73 gears. That meant I could just floor it off the line without so much a burble or a chirp and be gone like a ghost. Those were the days.....but the Ferrari? Much the same sort of driving but 5,000 rpms full throttle is almost anti-social.
