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Mondial rear window motors

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by surfdwn, Oct 21, 2005.

  1. surfdwn

    surfdwn Rookie

    Sep 28, 2005
    5
    How does one get access to the rear window motors on an '84 Mondial cab? The driver's side is inop right now, so I can't get the top down. I know it's not the switch as I have swapped them. Does the rear windows have a realy as well?

    Anybody got one of these?

    David Nolen
     
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  3. matteo

    matteo F1 World Champ

    Aug 1, 2002
    13,748
    On a plane somewhere
    Full Name:
    Heir Butt
    There was a guy on the old board...Ron S. He had a 86 mondial that had the same issue. Do a search on the old board.
     
  4. NYCFERRARIS

    NYCFERRARIS Formula Junior

    Mar 2, 2004
    999
    Ok, you have a mondial so don't laugh ( I love 'em and I am on my 2nd!) when you hear this one..
    Generally...

    1) remove the oil cooler intake "strakes" on the outside of the car (yes you heard right onthe outside of the car)..this is done by removing two screws at the leading edge and then carefully (these things are soooo delicate) lifting out towards the front

    2) reach in the hole and you will be able to get to the motor.

    The rear mondial window goes up/down about 5-6 inches but this motor will cost you about $700 or more (could be alot more) ..I am told can't be rebuilt and you will learn that the motor and lifting mechanism is all one complete unit.

    if someone has more detailed step-by-step specifics on this, a source for rebuilt motors .please , please chime in!
     
  5. surfdwn

    surfdwn Rookie

    Sep 28, 2005
    5
    Thanks for the tip on how to get to the rear motor. I removed the driver's side "strakes" and got access to the motor. It's toast! I have power to it in both up and down, but no movement. It doesn't even try to move....

    Anybody got one of these or know one can be had for a reasonable price?


    David Nolen
     
  6. NYCFERRARIS

    NYCFERRARIS Formula Junior

    Mar 2, 2004
    999
    welcome to the mondial rear window f'd up club...
    If you can find a source for these or a rebuilder I would love to know as well...these things are crazy expensive..I looked at trying to engineer a "manual" way of moving the window up/down ..even from outside the car but could not, although I am not very technically inclined.
     
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  8. Ricambi America

    Ricambi America F1 World Champ
    Sponsor Owner

    The grease is probably hard as a rock. Stop messing with the switch before you burn up the motor. I think you can dissolve the old grease with WD40 (or a chisel), then apply some new lithium grease. More technical folks, can you chime in on this one?
     
  9. surfdwn

    surfdwn Rookie

    Sep 28, 2005
    5
    I just got frustrated after talking with Ferrari dealers and parts guys. That motor assembly is from $900 (parts house) to $1360 (from the dealer). Evidently, the new part includes the glass!

    I went out and tried some "backyard engineering" and gave the thing a good whack with a hammer. I now moves! It's very, very slow and gets stuck, but it does move. On to finding the posts on how to clean these things up and get them operating smoothly again!

    Thanks for the help. I never would have figured to go in from the outside to get to the window motor!

    David Nolen
     
  10. Ricambi America

    Ricambi America F1 World Champ
    Sponsor Owner

    ^^ Yeah, but it's one of the parts guys who's trying to offer some technical help so you don't have to buy anything new!
     
  11. bshaw

    bshaw Karting

    Nov 3, 2003
    65
    Connecticut
    Full Name:
    Bill
    I haven't done this myself, but it was done to my Mondial Cab before I bought it. Karl Troy from European Road and Racing in Charolette, NC did the operation, removed the motor and 'fixed' whatever was wrong. That was 5 or 6 years ago and it's still working today. If all else fails you might give him a call, he's a good f-mechanic and real easy to talk to.

    Bill
     
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  13. hetek

    hetek Karting

    Aug 8, 2005
    141
    LI, NY
    Same here. My Mondial Cab's passenger side rear window was stuck. The dealer cleaned it up and it works fine now, and dare I say "fast". Apparently, 20 year old grease is as good as glue.

    Now my driver's side rear window is acting up. I got it down but am leaving it there until I can look into it further. Hard to do when you have three kids saying "Daddy!, Daddy!, Daddy!..." every time I attempt it.

    I recall a thread a while back about the cleaning procedure but it may have been for a 308's side window or something like that. Involved splitting the motor case, lubing the cable and reassembly.

    I'll be reading along with you in the meantime.
     
  14. surfdwn

    surfdwn Rookie

    Sep 28, 2005
    5
    Well, the saga goes on with the rear window! I've got it now so that it will go up and down with assistance. It goes down fairly well, but gets stuck on the way up.

    I ran a wire from the battery to the motor, and it goes up and down just fine! I checked the voltage at the switch and the supply voltage drops to 8 volts or so when the motor is powered. I then took the wire from the battery and put it in parallel with the supply wire, and the window goes up and down just fine.

    I looks like I've got a problem in the blue supply wire. Can anybody tell me the routing of this wire? I must have a high resistance connection somewhere.

    By the way, the passenger window goes up and down reasonably well.


    David Nolen
     
  15. hetek

    hetek Karting

    Aug 8, 2005
    141
    LI, NY
    surfdwn- You have a carbon-copy of my car! Rear passenger window goes up and down reasonably well and the driver's side is stuck/non-operative.

    I followed along at home and actually took off the side intake grill to gain access to the motor. My problem is that the window is down and the glass is covering the motor so I cannot reach it! I am trying to get the window up.

    Another problem is that I have a cabriolet and the top will not go down if the rear window is up so I MUST find a way to make work. Either that or I live with the top up on a beautiful sunny day or the rear window stuck down on a crisp winter day - either one is not acceptable.

    Here's an informal proposal: Since the infamous Mondial rear window is a chronic problem (apparently) I will take a shot at figuring out how to make a manual overide kind of device - like the front windows have. I have access to engineering and an electric motor guru and will most definitely use the K.I.S.S. principle. I will use my own window motor ass'y as the guinea pig. Should I fail that, I will at least develop a way to make the motor lift more reliable and/or repairable and will post all info for us Mondial owners to use.

    What do I want in return? Someone to tell me the easiest way to remove the friggin' rear window assembly from the car so I can get started!!!

    Anyone?
     
  16. frankty

    frankty Rookie

    Oct 5, 2005
    44
    Apex, NC
    Full Name:
    Frank Yonkers
    So, while we're on the subject of Mondial windows - when they DO work well ..

    There's the "old grease" theory and then the "low voltage theory" on why they run so slow. I got fedup and ran power and ground direct from the battery to each window on my Cab. Bought two SPDT relays per window and now all the switches do is flip the relays - what a difference! The windows run up and down almost as fast as a *normal" car. :) The only real hard part was fishing the new wire into the front doors - I used 10ga (had it around left from another project).

    I'll be happy to detail the parts required and wiring changes if anyone is interested.

    - Frank
    '85 Cab/Euro
     
  17. NYCFERRARIS

    NYCFERRARIS Formula Junior

    Mar 2, 2004
    999
    Ok, now MY driver-side (left side) rear window is stuck in the up position and I can't put the top down...passenger side goes up/down but slower than ketchup in winter.

    I think the manual over-ride would be best solution somehow...I was told the motor, mechanism and window are all one unit and the motor can't be openned or "field" serviced in anyway...so I would love a good tip on grease cleaning ala' the 308 gear motors that go slow....

    to get the window up, I simply used a pair of tongs with some duct tape or rubber on the tips to get a good grip and to reach in from above and simply pulled real hard on the window to get it up, sure the motor (or gears )complain alot but I figured it is not working all that well to begin with...

    curious about the direct battery/relay wiring project...I will try anything. What a hassle .
     
  18. hetek

    hetek Karting

    Aug 8, 2005
    141
    LI, NY
    I'd like to take the rear quarter window assembly out in its entirety for repair. Problem I see is that although you can gain limited access through the side intake grill opening and also by removing a small interior trim piece, its definitely not enough to bring out the whole window assembly, tracks and all.

    What I'm afraid of is that I will end up taking off interior panels in search of access only to find a dead end. This is where prior experience is key.

    I'm hoping that someone here will say "All you have to do is... ... and it's out."

    Can someone please fill in the blank?
     
  19. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    27,141
    Austin TX
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    Believe it or not it comes out the top, window, regulator, motor, everything in one piece.

    Sorry can't give specific directions. I only do one about every 10 years and have to learn it all over again. I can tell you though that in their infinite wisdom (spelled greed) FNA went from offering the window and regulator as seperate pieces, they now bundle them together. To make it worse when the decision was made to do that the dope smokers in the wharehouse put the right windows with the left regulators and there is no telling when a left is ordered if you will get a left regulator and a right window or a left window and a right regulator (and you guys really wonder why it costs so much to fix a Ferrari. It has a great deal to do with the shear stupidity of FNA.) so you really need to order both. If you are smart you will just order the parts you need from F-UK. Either their dope is not as good or they are just smarter over there but you will probably get the right parts.

    You should get with Ferrari UK and get the electrical manual, every Mondial owner should have one. Then go through the entire circut connector by connector and clean them. The relay idea is a very good one and should be done.
     
  20. hetek

    hetek Karting

    Aug 8, 2005
    141
    LI, NY
    Thanks Rifledriver- The simple statement that it comes out the top as a unit helps alot. Funny, I was just looking down through the top and wondered if that was how it's done. Then I read your post. Like I said: prior experience is key, even if it's only once every 10 years.

    I like the relay idea, also. I saw the contacts spark through the translucent plastic housing of the window switches. Not good. Must be a heck of a current draw - especially when the motor is failing or meeting resistance. Letting the relay do the heavy work is a better idea - that's what they're made for AND, compared to Ferrari window switches, they're a dime a dozen (OK, $5 each at the local Radio Shack).

    Back to busting knuckles. Wish me luck.
     
  21. hetek

    hetek Karting

    Aug 8, 2005
    141
    LI, NY
    Well, MY saga continues...

    I got the window up now. How? I rattled the heck out of it while powering the switch up. It goes slow and needs some help, but it makes it.

    I do see the voltage drop across the switch but I think it is more a factor of a high current draw on the motor rather than a voltage drop. In any case, I hope the relay trick will solve it.

    When I back-probed the switch while applying power, I got the 8 volts everyone else was reporting. When I unplugged the motor from the wiring, I got 12 volts at the harness. I checked the motor and it only seems to have around 8 ohms resistance. That would explain the low voltage across the switch when the motor is connected.

    I'm going to try the direct wire trick next. Wish me luck.
     

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