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Mondial T (Long...) EDIT: VERY LONG...

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by Ricardo, Dec 2, 2003.

  1. Ricardo

    Ricardo Karting

    Nov 3, 2003
    60
    Portugal
    Full Name:
    Ricardo
    Hello everyone,

    I have been a lurker for some time in this Board. I check it many times a day and just LOVE IT!!!

    I am thinking about purchasing my 1st Ferrari sometime next year.

    I am not really new to Ferrari's. My dad had a 348 some 10 years ago, but the car had to go, unfortunatelly. I really miss driving it as it is unlike anything I have driven (except my 2 stroke go kart...).

    The Ferrari would mainly be a fun car which I would (Try...) not drive everyday as not to raise running costs too much. I have a Bmw 320 Cd(diesel) as my dayly and my wife has a Montero 3.2D.

    My driving experience includes a couple of races, 2 years of ownership of an Audi RS2(Running cost nightmare, exciting but not fun...), extensive driving time with BMW m5, 330 D (You would not believe what this diesel is capable of...), Porsche Boxster, among a few others. And of course I drove that 348 a lot of times, including at tracks.

    Why a Mondial T? Well, I have a wife and a 5 year old, and 4 seats would make it a more pratical proposition, even though I would also purchase a 2 seater if it was more interesting. I am open to sugestions...

    What are the values for a good example here in Europe? I have seen some from 20000 euros to 35000 euros in Germany. Anyone know a reliable source for such a car so I can contact them when ready to purchase?

    Also, how are the running costs for a Mondial T driven for around 4000 to 6000 Km yearly? This is a question I am very sensible to. I am not concerned about gas, tyres, insurance, which I know how much I would spend on. I am not mechanically inclined at all...

    How would buying and running costs compare to a 3.2? And the driving experience?

    What upgrades are available for the Mondial? I would love a screaming 355 but cannot (yet...) afford one...What kind of Horsepower can I expect to get? Any sound files with different exhausts? Handling upgrades? What's the maximum wheel diameter that the Mondial T accepts? Any pics of upgrade wheels?

    However, using a 92' 348 ts as a benchmark, is the Mondial T as exciting and as much fun? Could it be upgraded(within reason...What's that about a 100 shot?...Kidding...) to be as much fun?

    By fun and exciting I don't mean track times, 1/4 times, top speed and other performance measures...I am talking "smile"meter and "seatofthepants"meter here...Speed and performance is good, but as anyone who can drive (And has a brain...) will tell you, it gets more and more dangerous to drive fast on an open road each day, so even though performance figures are important, it's not a priority.

    Do you have pictures? Especially Dark colors as in Black on Black or Blue on Tan. Any videos?

    Other options I thought of would be a 348, 328, Mondial 3.2, early Testarossa(long shot since their a bit out of my budget). Any more I should think of? I would not mind a vintage ferrari if it was more fun and budget would be about the same...

    So what I am looking for is a relativelly cheap entry ferrari I can have a lot of fun with and I can run on a relativelly small budget. And preferably does not depreciate so much...

    Thanks for your help. I hope the wisdom I adquired in this board and will adquire in the time frame between buying the car will help me make the right decision for me.

    Sorry for the extra long post...
     
  2. Tennlee

    Tennlee Formula Junior

    Feb 10, 2002
    645
    Great Smoky Mountains
    Good luck finding the car. I can't be of any help with your questions...
     
  3. ILMAESTRO

    ILMAESTRO Karting

    Dec 29, 2002
    68
    Hi, I own a Mondial T which I acquired recently upon selling my Daytona. I wanted a four seater convertible to replace my Aston Martin vantage volante V8. (My wife refused to ride in the Aston because she said "too much nasty fumes when the top is down".
    A friend of mine who owns a Classic Car Dealership here in southern California gave me the keys to a low mileage Mondial T and told me to take it for a drive! First of all, don't even consider the regular Mondial, The T is the one to get. It's a completely different car under the skin with a 348 engine and gear box. the regular Mondial is slow and does not provide as much driving experience. I never thought I would like it but I was agreably surprised and bought the car on the spot. So far no regrets.
    I have driven both 348 and Mondial Ts' there is not much difference. The 348 is a bit quicker because of its weight but overall the difference is minimal (neither is a barn stormer). But they are quick enough for the street
    The Mondial T has power steering, great brakes, and handles very well. Its a great driver and as a bonus, it has 4 seats. The rag top is a ***** to open and close! Like any Ferrari, maintenance can be expensive, so buy the best car you can afford! I just saw another Mondial T at my mechanic with 90, 000 miles and still going strong, unbelievable. Just make sure the car is properly serviced. I think with Ferraries, the choice of the shop doing the service is most important and will determine if your Ferrari ownership experience is a pleasant one.

    Prices: $35 to $70Ks depending on location and condition.

    Don't hesitate to contact me if you want to discuss this some more.
     
  4. mondial85

    mondial85 Karting

    Sep 9, 2003
    168
    Indianapolis
    Full Name:
    Casey Slattery
    I was in the same position as you not long ago. I couldnt decide between a 308, mondial or jalpa. I finally ruled out the jalpa becasue nobody knew much about lambos and I ruled out the 308 becasue of the Magnum factor.
    The Mondial is a pretty reliable car as far as Ferrari's go. I used to own a Mercedes and the Ferrari can't hold a candle to it mechanically. With my 3.2 I expect to pay at least 1500 to 3K a year. A T will be a little more. A major for a 3.2 is usually 3-5k and about 5-6k for a T. I myself have a 3.2 and its great. Ive heard mixed reviews about the T but I will admit it looks a little sharper than the 3.2. Whatever one you choose, be sure to get the cabriolet. It adds SO much more to the Ferrari experience. Don't know if ive told you anything you didnt already know, but good luck!
     
  5. allanlambo

    allanlambo F1 Rookie

    Jun 9, 2002
    4,363
    Maui
    Full Name:
    Allan
    Mondial T=$hitbox. Buy a 355.
     
  6. MondialTCab

    MondialTCab Formula 3

    Sep 5, 2001
    1,020
    Pacific Northwest
    Full Name:
    John Michael Gross
    Christ...ignore Allan, he is a known agitator on the board. He is right that the 355 is a better car but for what you are looking for, it is 2 seats short. I own a T and put on 8-10k a year. I will respond to your email so I can look at the questions...

    - JMG
     
  7. MondialTCab

    MondialTCab Formula 3

    Sep 5, 2001
    1,020
    Pacific Northwest
    Full Name:
    John Michael Gross
    As you noted, the T will be slower than the others on the track but the handling will probably be somewhat more approachable with the extended wheelbase. The car is especially balanced if you are running with the spare in the front. Based on reputation, most Ferrari folks will think themselves faster than you...if you are a driver, you will take them on a shorter track. The car IS seriously fast, just not as seriously fast as some others.

    Brakes fade under extermemly hard use but do quite wheel for street driving. Tubi, K&N will improve audio of the engine and performance somewhat, chipping the engine will fatten up the band around 3k where it tends to stumble a touch.

    I like Black/Tan (see profile) and tend to prefer darker colors overall.

    Don't know what the resale market is in Europe but understand that the Cabs are not as plentiful there as here in the US. Expect the car to depriciate as newer models come in...it will never be collectable. TRs in the US are around the same price as nice T Cabs...again, looking at a 2 seat scenario there.

    As for maint, the costs are in line with other Ferraris...fairly well documented on the board in a cost per mile basis. I have never been stranded nor had anything major but I tend to err on the side of over-maint as opposed to ignore until it dies maint.

    I have two kids...put 4 point harnesses in the back and they only like to ride in this car vs. 2 others I have.

    - JMG
     
  8. trevi

    trevi F1 Rookie
    Owner

    May 19, 2003
    2,619
    Switzerland
    #8 trevi, Dec 3, 2003
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    ricardo,

    here a pic of mine 89' t cab, verde scuro fer 603

    my experiences are very mixed, on the positive side: the car handles very well, has good power, good sound and it's a lot of fun to drive it. of course it suffers from a lack of stiffness, if you have a cab, but on the other hand driving with the open roof is just a blast (especially with 275 km/h on the german autobahn ;)).
    about stiffness: 2 years ago i had the direct comparison on the monza racetrack: my friend had a mondial t coupe and he was able to brake at 70 meters to the first chicane after the straight. me, with the roof open, was braking at 200 meters and the chassis was moving like hell and was breaking out despite of the ABS, i had to lift off the brakes several times to keep control of the car and i don't remember exactly how i made the first chicane finally without loosing control. my friend, who was driving behind me could not believe that i did not end up in the grass ;)

    on the negative side i seem to have got a very bad example, many many breakdowns and the last 4 years i've spent around 30'000 Euros on repairs, a real nightmare! but there's no explanation for this and as far as i know, there's nobody else having all the problems i had.

    hth, trevi
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  9. trevi

    trevi F1 Rookie
    Owner

    May 19, 2003
    2,619
    Switzerland
    you don't need to quote half of a page for such a useless short comment. you should focus yourself more on your magazine straightline comparisons and not on stupid replies ;)
     
  10. Ricardo

    Ricardo Karting

    Nov 3, 2003
    60
    Portugal
    Full Name:
    Ricardo
    Well, You guys are great!!!!

    This is very helpfull. Keep the info coming.

    ILMAESTRO - Can you comment on the driving experience against the Daytona a bit more?

    Guys, I am familiar with Allan and most of the times I like his posts. He is a performance guy not a Ferrari guy and I don't think we should hold that against him. It's just a diferent way of looking at a car.

    Allan - The 355 is twice the money of the Mondial. Do you have any other alternatives? I would buy your SV if you accept Mondial t money...Or your 355!

    Trevi - Talk about chassis flex!!! I would not have believed that if I had read it elsewhere! The 348 we had was a ts, so it had a bit of flex but nothing near what you describe.

    Anyway, any alternatives to the Mondial t I should consider? Any vintage Ferrari in about the same price range?

    Thanks for all your help guys! This board makes me want one of these cars even more.
     
  11. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
    10,213
    San Antonio
    Full Name:
    Russ Turner
    ricardo

    If you did not see it, here is another recent thread of someone also comparing the 3.2 and a t. This is a common conundrum for buyers with a family who would like a 2+2. They are both great cars - very fun, practical and great to have the whole family out on trips. We have been enjoying our 3.2 for seven years touring around Europe and the US in Grand style.

    http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2278

    trevi - beautiful color!

    good luck, and best regards
    rt
     
  12. trevi

    trevi F1 Rookie
    Owner

    May 19, 2003
    2,619
    Switzerland
    i believe one can handle that chassis flex, at that track day i was the one with the smallest ferrari, but i was for sure not the slowest around the track, it's fun if you have to fight with your car ;)
    for public roads, even twisty pass roads, it's not a problem. if you are speeding over 200 km/h you just have to remember that you need a little bit more braking distance in emergency cases than with a 348 or others.

    if you want to take your wife and kid with you, than a mondial is the way to go IMHO, you get the hell a lot of "ferrari" for a very moderate price. besides of my negative comments, i would buy it again, especially also with my very rare and wonderful color combo. and everybody tells me that i'm done with the repairs, now almost everything on this car was fixed/replaced and it should be perfect.

    however, i'm thinking about selling it (but i have to confess with bitter feelings), because i'm extremely tempted to buy a 365 gt4/bb.

    trevi
     
  13. ILMAESTRO

    ILMAESTRO Karting

    Dec 29, 2002
    68
    #13 ILMAESTRO, Dec 3, 2003
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Ricardo, Hi

    You can't really compare a Daytona with the Mondial T. The Daytona was the fastest automobile sold on the street after the Cobra 427 (in the late 60' up to the late 70') When you drive a Daytona, you are driving a truc in the city but press the trottle and bam you are driving a Grand Prix car. But watch for 1960's tires and breaks, you can get in trouble very quickly. Contrary to what a certain Lambo owner will claim on this board, even the Miura was no match for the Daytona. Even the 365 BB was no match. Read the Paul freres Test drives in Autocar magazines. The 365GTB/4 was the only Ferrari raced succesfully at that time. And then there is the sound! like classical music!
    The Mondial T is east to drive, great handling, brakes, hard to get in trouble with, but performance does not eaven come close to the daytona. However, I bet on canyon roads, a well driven Mondial might beat a Daytona, but not on the open road!

    As far as comparing a T and the previous models, As I said previously no comparaison, more Power, the engine seats much lower in the back and further aft resulting in a much better balance. Also, the 348 motor is one of the most reliable V8 Ferrari engines and the Bosch motronic is a big plus. Tha car has power steering which is also a plus.

    Try to drive both Mondials and you will see there is no contest!
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  14. ILMAESTRO

    ILMAESTRO Karting

    Dec 29, 2002
    68
    #14 ILMAESTRO, Dec 3, 2003
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  15. allanlambo

    allanlambo F1 Rookie

    Jun 9, 2002
    4,363
    Maui
    Full Name:
    Allan
    $hitbox!
     
  16. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
    10,213
    San Antonio
    Full Name:
    Russ Turner
    ILMAESTRO
    Nice looking car! I really like the darker red (at least in the picture).

    Ricardo -
    If you do settle on the t, do a search on '348 upgrades' on the old board - there were some factory upgrades for reliability to the early 3.4 liter engines that you should ensure were done.

    Of course, the 3.2 was pretty bulletproof at the end of 10 years of development. :)

    Would agree drive both and see which you like better.

    best
    rt
     
  17. Ricardo

    Ricardo Karting

    Nov 3, 2003
    60
    Portugal
    Full Name:
    Ricardo
    ILMAESTRO - Love that Daytona, but the mondial is also very nice.

    Trevi - I also have an autobhan near were I live (well, sort off). We got to 298 (my dad driving) and I got it to 280 (myself driving).

    mondial85 - I am not sure about the convertible. I agree that a convertible add's to any car's experience, but I am not so keen on the body flex that has benn talked about. Also, I read somewhere that the Mondial's top is a pain to open and close.

    snj5 - Thanks for your opinion... Then again, you get your kicks from flying. I am afraid that the Mondial won't be so exciting!

    MondialTCab - I am sure my son would love it! Did you get your 4 point harness for safety or other reason? Racing 4 points are pretty unconfotable especially the weight!

    Allan - Any other comments? You didn't reply if you would sell your sv or 355 for mondial t money! Any other alternatives I should consider? The 355 is too expensive for me.

    Thanks again everyone!
     
  18. ILMAESTRO

    ILMAESTRO Karting

    Dec 29, 2002
    68
    As far as stiffness is concerned, I find my car very good, this is one of the stiffest convertibles I have had, right on par with my 500SL! The Mondial is not a racing car anyway, who cares!
     
  19. allanlambo

    allanlambo F1 Rookie

    Jun 9, 2002
    4,363
    Maui
    Full Name:
    Allan
    Ricardo, in all honesty, the Mondial drives like a school bus. It is a car to buy only if you want to have the Ferrari name on the front. Everything about the car is substandard. Ive driven plenty of them, and even tried to get my wife one. After driving it, she laughed at me. Personally, id buy a Porsche Turbo, or a Cabrio over any Mondial. The Mondial offers nothing to substantiate the high cost of maintaining it.

    As for the Sv and 355, i'll never sell the Sv, and the 355 will be traded in a Gallardo.

    As for the Muira not being able to keep up with a Daytona....LOL Maybe if the Muira started in 3rd gear.
     
  20. MondialTCab

    MondialTCab Formula 3

    Sep 5, 2001
    1,020
    Pacific Northwest
    Full Name:
    John Michael Gross
    89 had 2 point in the rear so it was for safety reasons...weight is really minor compared to the safety. I prefer the feel personally...

    - JMG
     
  21. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
    10,213
    San Antonio
    Full Name:
    Russ Turner
    ricardo

    While I do like flying the best, we've had a Mondial for 7 years and it's exciting enough for me on the ground.
    Most Ferraris, Maseratis, Lamborghinis, Porsches, etc, have more capability than I'll ever need on a routine basis on the street, which is how I use my car. To me, the idea is learning to fully utilize most of the performance envelope (safely) that you have much of the time, and the Mondial has really taught me a lot about car control, balance and energy management - it's not an easy car to drive really well. That is what I wanted so I could work on my driving skills and have some practicality, travelling and fun also.
    I will agree with Allan that if it has those gawd awful heinous Goodyear tires, it does drive like a truck. Any newer technology tire transforms the car (at least to me) wonderfully. I like Michelin Pilots and Pirellis, but I hear Bridgestones are good.

    If I want to pull g's, my fun meter starts at 3 and goes up to 9 - and it's all legal at altitude. :)

    Have fun with whatever you decide! It's your Euro!

    best
    rt
     
  22. Ricardo

    Ricardo Karting

    Nov 3, 2003
    60
    Portugal
    Full Name:
    Ricardo
    MondialTCab - I meant weight as in weight on your body which would make it unconfortable, not performance weight. For safety vs 2 point belts that makes sense.

    Allan - I agree with you that for the same money I could probably pick up a 911 turbo (964) and that is also a option I am considering. But, even though I judge cars on a performance basis as you do, I am not so sure that I would prefer to own an old Porsche over an old ferrari 5 years down the road. On the other hand If I could buy a tr or a 355 there would be no contest, even if I agree that a 993 or 996 turbo for the same money with a few tweaks would probably (for sure...) kill both!

    snj5 - I also think that a few tweaks, like tyres, suspension and wheel alignment can tranform any car a lot, especially a Ferrari that as all these suspension parameters that you can change(at least the 348 did).

    By the way snj5, I really love the numbers on your G meter! 3 to 9? that beats the 400 km/h speedo on the fastest cars by a mile! Maybe I should learn how to fly!
     
  23. MondialTCab

    MondialTCab Formula 3

    Sep 5, 2001
    1,020
    Pacific Northwest
    Full Name:
    John Michael Gross
    As did I...any additional weight on your body is really not an issue IMHO. I have the Sparco Club Racers at 2" so they really don't feel much different. Best part, the kids think it is a blast to wear them since they are held in place! Good training for later life when they can start to make value judgements about wearing such things.

    - JMG
     
  24. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
    10,213
    San Antonio
    Full Name:
    Russ Turner
    ricardo

    No one ever regrets learning how to fly - would recommend it to everyone. A great bunch of people worldwide. And many fun airplanes are a lot cheaper to own and maintain than almost every Ferrari. Of course, it's tough to drive the plane around town, but that's what the Mondial is for!

    best
    rt
     
  25. Ingenere

    Ingenere F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 11, 2001
    5,787
    On the Limit
    Full Name:
    Dino
    I currently have a 348 Challenge and a Mondial t cab. I think that you will find the Mondial a great and very usable car. Mine has been reliable, fun with good acceleration and handling. I don't think that the cab would make a great track car...but that's not the point of the car.

    You'll be happy with the t.

    Ciao
    Dino
     

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