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Mondial t squeaking brakes (it won't stop!)

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Jet-X, Nov 18, 2003.

  1. Jet-X

    Jet-X F1 Veteran
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    Nov 2, 2003
    5,614
    Orange County
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    Brian
    When I bought my Mondial t, there was a fair amount of pad left. As I drove it over the course of the next 1500 miles, the brakes would squeak at slow speeds (light brake pressure, 30MPH or less).

    Well, summer ended, and I took my car in and had the brakes replaced. Squeeking according to my mechanic was gone. Well, that may have been during the early hours when I picked it up, but as the day went on, the squeeking not only came back, but was louder than it was when it went in.

    The pads were replaced, so I don't get it.

    I tried 'breaking' (pun intended) the pads in by sudden hard stops, but that hasn't made it any better. I tried hosing down the brake rotors with hard water pressure, and the gray gunk that came out made the squeeking go away - or so I thought. That remedy lasted all of minutes of driving it afterwards.

    So what's wrong?

    Another thing is that in the morning (if driving), the brakes don't squeak until after I've been driving for about 5-10 minutes. Then the squeaking comes back and gets louder every time I brake.

    I'm stuck guys, and need help. The looks of shock at the sound of a semi truck stopping when in reality it's just a Ferrari is embarassing.

    On another note, *occasionally* as I'm cruising (say 30-40MPH), I can hear very faint squeaking that occurs everytime the tire makes a revolution or two. It's a split second 'squeak' - nothing - 'squeak' but it's faint. Once I stop, if I pump the brake peddle, seems to go away.

    Any ideas or suggestions (and $4k Brembo upgrades are out of the question)? At first I thought maybe my mechanic didn't change the brakes, but the squeaking is louder than when I brought it in.
     
  2. DBR328&330

    DBR328&330 Formula Junior

    May 31, 2001
    605
    Winchester, VA
    Full Name:
    Daniel Reese
    I'd like to hear what other people say, but according to my Ferrari mechanic (FOW) squealing brakes using stock Ferrari pads is normal. My 328 does it a bit too.
     
  3. Prugna 328

    Prugna 328 Formula 3

    Sep 10, 2003
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    Gregory
  4. Jet-X

    Jet-X F1 Veteran
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    Interesting...

    But squeeking as in ultra-loud like a freight truck?
     
  5. Jet-X

    Jet-X F1 Veteran
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    I'd love to see a picture of your car (prugna color)
     
  6. Cenzzo

    Cenzzo Rookie

    Nov 5, 2003
    11
    I know how frustrating that can be - I went through that with a set of Porterfield R4-S's for probably six months. Niggling little whiny squeals on the highway or in 35mph traffic - aaugh! Tried high speed breaking in manueuvers - the grief was endless. Ended up even rebuilding the rear calipers, because I thought that maybe they were hanging up. Tried the copper gook that you put on the back of the pads and a few other remedies, nothing worked. Even thought it might be wheel bearings at one point. The same, exact symptoms you're describing. Ended up getting a set of pads from Italiancarparts.com, the ones w/out sensors, they were perfect, and I've put 7k miles on them since - quiet, perfect, all that. It was just the pads. Been a happy camper ever since!
     
  7. Ferrari_tech

    Ferrari_tech Formula 3

    Jul 28, 2003
    1,527
    UK
    Full Name:
    Malcolm W
    Unfortunately Ferrari's do suffer from brake squeal and the fix can vary from model to model and in some cases will come back time and time again.
    You say you have had the pads replaced, were they standard pads, if not are they a harder compound than standard, what condition are the rotors in? If you fit softer brake pads the squealing will reduce, but then the life of the pad will decrease and if you drive hard and brake hard you will wear the pads out very quickly.
    In the past I have had a high success rate with curing brake squeal doing the following :-
    1. Grinding the discs (as long as there is enough material)
    2. Softer pads , or standard pads
    3. File a 3-4 mm champher on the leading edge of the pads
    4. Apply a liberal amount of high temperature copper grease to the rear
    of the pads
    5. Bed the pads in carefully, get the brakes up to normal operating
    temperature then brake very hard in several successive applications,
    but avoid brake fade, let the brakes cool down and then brake
    normally

    There is no guarantee that this will work, but woth a try

    Good Luck

    MW
     
  8. Dom

    Dom F1 Veteran
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    Nov 5, 2002
    7,516
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    Dom V.
    Brian,

    I found the following procedure for bedding in pads on the net. Perhaps that will work.

    Do you know what type of pads were installed? That may have something to do with the squealing. I'm using porterfield R4-S pads, with lots of anti-squeal compound on the back. I did do a bedding in procedure when I installed them, and have not had any squealing. Hope this helps.

    Dom

    This is the procedure I've used:
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    Follow normal bedding procedures (drive around gently braking for a few miles…pads will settle in…then do about 5 or so 10 to 50 mph and brake cycles allowing the rotors to cool a bit between runs.

    -----------------------------------------------------
    Also saw this, but much more involved:


    If you've just installed a big brake kit or even if you've only changed your brake pads and rotors, you should "bed" them in by following the instructions below. Proper bedding of brakes will improve pedal feel, reduce or eliminate brake squeal, and extend the life of your pads and rotors.

    When following these instructions, please avoid doing it in the presence of other vehicles. Breaking in your new pads and rotors is often best done very early in the morning, since other drivers will have no idea what you are up to and will respond in a variety of ways ranging from fear to curiosity to aggression. And an officer of the law will probably not understand when you try to explain why you were driving so erratically! Zeckhausen Racing does not endorse speeding on public roads and takes no responsibility for any injuries or tickets you may receive while following these instructions.

    From a speed of about 60mph, gently apply the brakes to slow the car down to about 45mph, then accelerate back up to 60mph and repeat. Do this about four or five times to bring the brakes up to operating temperature. This prevents you from thermally shocking the rotors and pads in the next steps.

    Make a series of eight near-stops from 60 to about 10 mph. Do it HARD by pressing on the brakes firmly, just shy of locking the wheels or engaging ABS. At the end of each slowdown, immediately accelerate back to 60mph. DO NOT COME TO A COMPLETE STOP! (Note: With less aggressive street pads and/or stock brake calipers, you may need to do this fewer times. If your pedal gets soft or you feel the brakes going away, then you've done enough. Proceed to the next step.)

    During this process, you must not come to a complete stop because you will transfer (imprint) pad material onto the hot rotors, which can lead to vibration, uneven braking, and could even ruin the rotors.

    Depending on the pads you are using, the brakes may begin to fade slightly after the 7th or 8th near-stop. This fade will stabilize, but not completely go away until the brakes have fully cooled. A bad smell from the brakes, and even some smoke, is normal.

    After the 8th near-stop, accelerate back up to speed and drive around for as long as possible without using the brakes. The brakes will need at least 10 minutes to cool down. Obviously, it's OK to use the brakes to avoid an accident, but try to minimize their use until they have cooled.

    If club race pads, such as Pagid Orange or Porterfield R4, are being used, add four near-stops from 80 to 10mph. If full race pads, such as Pagid Black, are being used, add four near-stops from 100 to 10 mph.

    After the break-in cycle, there should be a blue tint and a light gray film on the rotor face. The blue tint tells you the rotor has reached break-in temperature and the gray film is pad material starting to transfer onto the rotor face. This is what you are looking for. The best braking occurs when there is an even layer of of pad material deposited across the face of the rotors. This minimizes squealing, increases braking torque, and maximizes pad and rotor life.

    After the first break in cycle shown above, the brakes may still not be fully broken in. A second bed-in cycle, AFTER the brakes have cooled down fully from the first cycle, may be necessary before the brakes really start to perform well. If you've just installed a big brake kit, the pedal travel may not feel as firm as you expected. After the second cycle, the pedal will become noticeably firmer.
     
  9. Jet-X

    Jet-X F1 Veteran
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    Nov 2, 2003
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    Brian
    Thanks, will explore!
     
  10. TCM

    TCM Formula Junior

    Nov 10, 2003
    552
    Tyngsborough, MA
    Well, you have changed the pads but have not changed the rotors. They could possibly be too thin to dissolve the heat built up from braking (hence the reason why it only happens after driving for awhile). Try getting a new set of rotors and pads, bed them in correctly, and apply some anti-squeel lubracant on the back of the pads. Good luck.
     

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