This winter will be a good time to buy. Market has been soft will get softer. Of course if the stock market tanks when the Republicans shoot themselves in the foot again, that will be an even better time to buy. Frankly, you should look at Porsche 944 and 928 for lower cost of entry and lower cost of ownership, for an equivalent car.
Russ, why are you here!? I've watched from the sidelines while others have pretty much asked the same question. You constantly dog Mondial's. As I understand it, you bought a bad example of one. It happens. Move on. Find something you enjoy that's positive.
Beautiful car Hope it fetches more than that. I remember an average red cab going for 38k a year or so ago Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
Actually you can buy a good running 928 S for under $15K. Only a museum quality manual GTS will fetch close to $100K. This is way more car than any Mondial. Don't forget the 968. And Dave, my car was not a "bad example" and my criticisms are not specific to my particular car or my particular experience, although they may be more inclined to the Mondial 8 as that's what I had for over 20 years. I am here because I have had 5 Ferraris (currently on no 4 and 5) and I think that qualifies me to visit Fchat. I am also here to help people like Temple who have never owned a Mondial. The Mondial is a trap that's (relatively) cheap to get into, potentially painful to be in, and hard to get out of.
My Mondial 3.4t coupe is for sale as well (euro spec car) PM for more info. The car is red-tan, has 79k kms, full history, major service done last year (rebuilt gearbox, new clutch, new cats, new a lot, new carpets)
I think the key word your leaving out is "potentially".... Which so happens to pertain to all 30+ year Ferrari, and all other cars for that matter. It's pretty clear to everyone you've got a bone to pick, which is your every right. I'm obviously biased favorably on the Mondial. The truth is somewhere in the middle.
A museum quality Mondial t sold a few years ago for $110K+ (95K Euro+12% BP) No problem stating your opinions that Mondial's are the worst car in history, but no need to spread falsehoods. Also keep in mind: 60,000+ 928s produced 140,000+ 924s made 140,000+ 944s made Mondials are literally an order of magnitude rarer. Anywhere from ten (10) rarer then 928s, and 23 times rarer than a 924 or 944. Not a knock on these cars, I love em too. But the same problem I have with 911s from an exclusivity factor. Sure there are ultra-rare subtypes of all cars above, but only enthusiasts would be able to point them out. On a typical drive, I'll pass by at least 2-3 911s (yawn) - what can I say, I don't like going to a party wearing the same shirt as 3 other guys.
The word potentially is in there Paul. I did not leave it out. But I see so many cars offered for sale with tens of thousands of dollars in recent mtce records over a few thousand miles of use, do the math. $5 per mile in service cost is not uncommon, not to mention the insurance and fuel. That's the painful part. And yes all Ferraris are expensive to keep up, even if you do your own work, because parts are just egregious. They are rare, but you are paying through the nose for the prestige. On most models, you get your money out when you sell. Not so much on the Mondial. If you buy one, better plan on keeping it for the long haul, and doing most maintenance yourself. Unless you absolutely have to have 4 seats, the Mondial is not the smart buy in the Ferrari world, and if you have to have the 4 seats, consider stepping up to a GT4 but first look long and hard at the Porsche 944, 968 before you buy a Mondial. Bottom line, I don't attack anyone personally in this forum. Yet I am subject to frequent attack because my message is not popular with current Mondial owners. So if you have a Mondial and don't like to hear the alternative (and I think realistic) viewpoint, put me on ignore. My comments are mainly aimed at those thinking of buying a Mondial, not those who already have one.
Russ, Like any car, the 1st version will have it's issues addressed and improved upon in later models. Would advise anyone to not get a Mondial 8. Are there some exceptional 8's out there. Absolutely. You owned and cared for yours for 20 years. That's commitment! Kudos to you. How bad could it be if you kept it so long... I'm guessing it was your first introduction into Ferrari ownership? If so, it's good to see as bad as you claim your still in the game. Saw the thread on your 288gto clone with 355 running gear! That's awesome! Look if folks want to buy a 9whatever they can go to Rennlist, Pelican whatever... As far as how much coin is put into these cars. 1. Typically many are over maintained! Yes, and I'm guilty of it too. While replacing my RMS I had the clutch replaced, flywheel resurfaced etc. Needed? Nope. Rebuilt my Koni's , while your at replaced all the suspension bushings, sways etc. Was it noisy, not handling right before this. No. Do you really have to go to the expense of putting in a 355 drivetrain in a 308 body? No, but it will be awesome! My other 2 Ferrari's I've enjoyed, one being a Mondial QV I've sold for exactly what I paid for them. That's darn good in my book. Many Ferrari's did appreciate in value. In my time here on Fchat have heard how this model and that would never be worth more than x. In time most were wrong. Key thing is each model had it's runup at different times. Russ I hope you stay as a happy camper here.
I don't disagree with Russ, and I feel that everyone is entitled to their opinion which is what makes this site so interesting. I don't think that the Mondial is an inferior model, but rather a model that has always had a significantly lower price point of entry. Maintenance costs and parts are the same for the Mondial, 308, 328, 348 and so on. The issue is that due to the low price point of entry, many-a-Mondial have been neglected along the way. Some neglectors were dealers and short term owners that flipped the cars as soon as they needed servicing. Some long term owners probably did the same when they saw other models creep up in value while Mondial's remained somewhat idle over the years. The value proposition was gone and neglect took it's place. Let's not forget, people are followers by nature; if there's bad press about the Mondial, it must be a bad car, right? Why spend all that money maintaining a car that's not worth anything? Fast forward to recent times with real owners who discuss this model regularly. People read how great these cars can be and jump into ownership. In many cases these people buy inexpensive variants that require major overhauls due to years of neglect. This is the reason why we are seeing cars for sale with thousands of dollars of recent maintenance costs-making up for the years of spit and bubblegum fixes and neglect. The only difference between a Mondial and any other Ferrari is love...
me too davem. 308 GT4 and 365/400/412 come to mind easily. I do acknowledge that the Mondial may be the first and only Ferrari from pre-1990 that never appreciates, even in say another 10-20 years.
Russ good on you, healthy debate is a good thing - and if I ever offended you personally or insulted your character - my apologies (and I mean that sincerely). I look forward however to debating you on non-personal topics! Cheers
Bought my 308 gt/4 for 20k, not 10 years ago. Sold it 3 years later for 20k. It was a 74 euro model. Easily worth 4 times that today. Back then the same predictions were made. All Ferrari's have gone up, just at different times.
reminds me of something The Mayer posted a while back. Ferrari Owners of 1986: A Dino is not a Ferrari Dino Owners of 1986: A Dino is a Ferrari Ferrari Owners of 2016: A Dino is a Ferrari Dino Owners of 2016: We told you!!!!
This is an argument that gets rehashed so often it's exhausting. Russ's points are usually partially valid - the Mondial has issues and can cost a lot to keep on the road, and you may not get your money back out. I think his will is good. But I think these issues are in no way particular to the Mondial. Pick any 80's Ferrari and the same issues and costs apply. Even better, compare to someone who bought a nice driver+ level Daytona 2 years ago for average market price of $800k. They likely spent another $50k sorting out the issues that came up during their first 2 years of ownership, paid a lot to insure it, and lo and behold now the market has corrected and it's worth about $600k. So if they sell today they've lost about a quarter million on their "investment". The bottom line is ALL Ferrari's are luxury cars, and luxury cars are called that for a reason. They are luxuries. The only difference in this respect between a 250 Lusso and a 308 Mondial is the number of zeros involved, but the same principles apply across the board. These are not regular cars. They are indulgences. They are old, mostly hand built, finicky, emotional machines. Expecting them to be anything else is tantamount to expecting the sun to rise in the west. They are not investments where you should expect a financial gain or even to break even. Cars are meant to be driven and enjoyed, not to fund your retirement. If that's what you want go look into index funds. I think if you go into Ferrari ownership really believing those two things, ie - managing your expectations, you'll be happy as a clam because the ownership experience will likely exceed your expectations and if it doesn't, so what? If you go in expecting your Ferrari to cater to all your whims AND be a winning lottery ticket, good luck feeling satisfied. In other words, "Ask not what your Ferrari can do for you. Ask what you can do for your Ferrari." You'll like the cars much more that way.
Bought my GT4 for $19K, sold it 6 years later for $20K, and now the same $20K won't buy a rusted sample that does not run. Sad, but I don't miss it. But, a GT4 is not a Mondial.
Well said. The same would apply to mid 90's V12 Mercedes. CL 65 was about $180k new. Today, $25-$30k with miles well under 100k. The reason? Maintenance. But there is virtually no depreciation left. I don't see much bashing of those cars (and I follow them). Buy/Lease a new ordinary car and easily drop $500 month for something decent. 3 years later turn it in. You have "spent" $18,000 in 3 years. A heck of a lot more than Mondial maintenance over the same time period, even with a major. True about pricing on a lot of Ferrari parts. That is irritating. But many of them were made and used in other cars. So do some research and shopping and find the equivalent. The 348 board has a parts interchange (applicable to t drivetrain), so people share and the parts pricing comes down. If you can't DIY, most maintenance can be done by any regular good mechanic. Major service is probably best left to more knowledgeable mechanics. Finally, I did not buy my car as an investment. I EXPECT to lose money over time when factoring in maintenance. There are only a handful of cars that won't be true of. The Ferrari world is a little crazy on mileage. 42,000 miles on a 28 year old car is probably considered average (in the rest of the world that is very low, average of less 1500 miles a year). So what. I have a work of art that I can "take off the wall" on weekends and do more than look at it. Regards, Jerry
I think you’re attacked personally because of you, Not your message. Plenty of people warn others that a cheap Ferrari is a very expensive proposition. You do it with distain and attitude. You buy crap cars as is pretty clear from your post history (which everyone should review of every person they look to for advice). Project cars. And please keep your BS political comments out of this section. There’s a forum dedicated to that should you have the balls to debate those issues with people.
Fair enough. People looking to buy should find a mechanic first, then the car. Perhaps we should have a good mechanics thread. (Although that is best in local geographic forums). A good mechanic often knows cars that aren’t for sale but could be bought. Value shopping for sale ads is a recipe for disaster. Something on which I think Russ and I agree.
