Money teams get from sponsorship if they are successful in the WDC > WCC money

For the sake of debate, I'll go with you......

No you didn't!.... Alarm bells began with;

200MM UKP annual budget! [Call it $300MM!] No sir, not any more!..... Turns out your source is dated 2008...... Back then, possible.

My understanding (from various sources ) is that;

- No Concorde is currently in place. eek
- Last years "Bernie pot" was around $600MM.
- The Cans, as 3xWCC's got just over $110MM.
- Ferrari got ~$80MM + their personal 2.5%
- Caterham got ~$10MM
- Bernie holds ~10% of the pot year on year.
- Everyone else extrapolates between those #'s.

Further;

- A "top team" (big 2? 3? 4?, I dunno) gets ~$80MM for the big spots.
- Ferrari are unique in that Marlboro buys the whole thing - $100MM per was a # I read a while back.
- UPS is therefore ~$10MM (?)
- Most other "top team" sidepods run ~60-80MM per.
- Lesser teams? Even Marussia don't want to give 'em away..... $20MM??
- Again, extrapolate for everyone else.

Big #'s anyway.

Cheers,
Ian

 

IIRC Marlboro has the spots where previously hey advertised on. All the other spots are still free game.

 

WCC didn't even exist in the fifties. It is a mere afterthought and consolation prize.

About the only reasonable argument I ever heard for a WCC is what Tillman says: You can't drive an Alonso, but only a Ferrari. So for car manufacturers one could make the point that there is more selling power in the WCC than in a WDC. However that argument goes out the window for a team like RedBull, which is all about getting the product name out into the mass media so people buy more energy drinks.

Ultimately the reason for modern F1 is being a giant marketing/advertisement campaign. As others said here, sponsors pay for having their products out there and the more you win, the more your car and its billboards are seen around the world. Hence the focus on the winner and the WDC.

 

I certainly don't claim to know, none of us do, but IIRC that's not the case. Marlboro still "buy" the entire car and then "sub-lease" spots to the other guys. I read they handle all the "paperwork" directly and some have speculated they actually make money this way - They generate more income than they give the team!

Then there's Santander - Many postulate they pay (part of?) the drivers retainers. Again, I dunno, but do believe they pay many $ to Marlboro for car "placement" and uniforms etc.

Possible? Maybe. BUT, for sure there is an RRA in place and they've all cut back substantially from those days; Not running multiple test teams is the biggest saving of course. Current "best guesses" suggest a top budget is just North of $100MM per season.

They no longer *need* $300MM to run.

Again, I don't know, but the Concorde doesn't look back at the entire history of the sport - Or yeah, you'd be right - Ferrari would be laughing quite literally all the way to the bank!

However, it does look at "what have you done for me lately?" A repeat WCC winner gets a somewhat higher percentage than a newbie - Should Fauxtus win it this year they won't make as much as if the Cans win again for example.

That seems a little high as an "add on", but possible I guess.

As I said above, I'm pretty sure not all the additional sponsor money actually goes to Ferrari, but rather back to Marlboro.

Ferrari's merchandising is no doubt a *huge* deal, but how much gets fed to the team is "hazy" at best. However, I'd bet they sell roughly the same amount of **** regardless of WDC positions every year. Maybe a little more in the "good" years, but not much.

Yep, sorry for any confusion. It certainly does add up, fast. But, as I said, in Ferrari's case at least not all the minor sponsor money actually goes to the team. For the others, I agree, a few million here, a few more there and you've got yourself an operating budget. If you're lucky.....

Understood and agreed. [Although we could debate the actual percentage forever! ] Most couldn't name the WCC should it be different to the WDC - Doesn't happen that often of course. For sure, as I said before, the WDC is the one they want for marketing.

However, I still say that Bernie's pot represents a large percentage of all their budgets, even the big guys. Even more so to the mid-field guys.

Cheers,
Ian
EDIT; Somewhat related (), Bernie's shopping site is offering free world wide shipping this week; http://f1store.formula1.com/stores/f1/default.aspx No affiliation obviously (unfortunately!), just seemed apropos......

 

Great analysis, Pete.


WDC > WCC


Like Andreas says, WCC is the consolation prize, and for guys whose favored driver lost to have something to claim was the "real" prize anyway!

 

Money is getting tight in F1 for all teams. The big number sponsorship deals that remain are expiring.
You just have to look at the number of pay drivers to see how hard up the sport has gotten.

Why they institute an expensive new engine spec at a time like this is beyond me.

 

Catering for Todt and the tree huggers.

 

That's part of it, but only a part.

I think it is also to throw the car/engine manufacturers a bone of having another chance at strutting their engineering stuff.

And it is also about the show: The frozen engine rule got stale. As did the chase for the WDC (4 Vettels in a row). Time to throw a fox into the hen house.

And the money argument isn't fully valid: Yes, it costs more to develop/buy new engines but the majority of the costs will be absorbed by the big boys. The small teams who fight for financial survival will probably end up paying similar amounts all things considered.

 

Even the big boys have limited funds these days.
While the smaller teams may not pay more for the new motors, redesigning the cars will be an added expense.

 

Good. That helps Ferrari, which still has pretty much unlimited funds.

Grasping at straws?
ANY team has to redesign the car for every season. New motor or not.

 

Not such a radical redo by any means.

 

Each team builds a new monocoque from scratch each year and has it FIA crash tested.
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I'm talking about the redesign. Not only do they have to fit a new motor but rethink the whole thing given the new power characteristics and weight.
It will add expense and will put the poorer teams even further back.

 

Who unfortunately in our present day alarmingly outnumber us gooks ...so it makes business sense and will attract more sponsorship entrants into the sport. The V6 turbo is also more relevant to the development of more mainstream cars. Honda & Porsche are all looking to play now.

 

All good things.

The more car/engine manufacturers the better.

 

I have no problem with turbos, it's just a shame they have to neuter them. That's the travesty.

FROZEN ENGINES SUCK!

 

You bet.
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That is how I understand the situation, as well.

When Schumacher drove for Ferrari, it was said that Shell paid his salary, so I could see Santander at least picking up Alonso's.



Also starting this year there is a dedicated prize fund of $100 million or 7.5% of F1's profits (whichever is more) for the top three teams based on races won in the previous four seasons.

 

That just makes a good business model to me, how do you get in on the ground floor of that deal

 

Friggin 'ay!.....

I guess if you had big brass ones, like a 'challenge' and have more money than God, you could do it..... I'm sure Marussia would love to offload all the 'searching for sponsors' BS to someone that's good at it. (Remember the terrible 'Your name here' stuff!.....)

My guess is ~$30MM would about cover it......

Indeed. However, Shell is one of the few that really are a partner. There's some good vids inside their traveling lab (in the front of one of the trucks). Also features BigTex BFF.

*Very* interesting. Source please?

That sounds 'similar' to what they've always done under the Concorde. For sure, the 'what have you done for me lately' question significantly affects your slice of the Bernie pot.

However, possibly of even more interest is that, AFAIK, there's still no Concorde in place. Bernie was saying 'it'll all be sorted' ahead of the season, but very little and no announcements since. IIRC, Merc were the only holdouts. Too many chief negotiators maybe? I don't care who you are, 'don't mess with Bernie', he never forgets........

Cheers,
Ian