Monterey auction thread (the '24 edition)

That is chicken ****

 

All good points. Apparently. 190K was a good price for this car. IMHO Silver/gray looks good on C4's but of course that is subjective. Market is pretty soft on these cars and it's easy to drop some big $ on them making them right. Originality, regardless of condition, was what caught my eye.

 

Interesting data, not sure what to make of it, but would others agree with my sense that while yes, RM outperformed Gooding on every metric, the data suggests estimates were high everywhere, and the no-sales reflect a gap in seller/buyer expectations. Further, on the whole, it seems like Gooding fielded a very solid, arguably superior array of important Ferraris, and their overall results both dollars and No Sales were impacted by failure of those specific cars to sell...

On an unrelated note: Earlier this summerI thought I saw somewhere there was a T Head Mercer Raceabout at Pebble, but now don't see it anywhere in the results. Anyone else notice it somewhere?

 

They are truly cars for connoisseurs, the average enthusiast knows next to nothing about them. I will take one over a Daytona any day; 90% of the perfomance, a far nicer sound, much more usable in traffic.

I love their rarity and not having what every lemming idolizes misguidedly.

One of the best classic Ferrari salesmen ever just told me a great anecdote about a major collector, who has had everything under the sun and really drives his cars, a lot, bought a very good one and then went and spent a fortune on it, several hundred thousand. When he asked him why on earth he would do that he answered: "Because it is the best Ferrari I have driven; a delight to enjoy with a great sounding engine and practical, I can even drive it easily into Manhattan."

 

Broad Arrow: https://www.broadarrowauctions.com/news/1913-Mercer-35-J-Raceabout-with-Single-Family-Ownership-Since-1959-Highlights-Brass-Era-Brilliance-at-the-Upcoming-Broad-Arrow-Monterey-Jet-Center-Auction

Did not sell.

 

for me, a new Calif or Roma would be much better for daily driving.

 

PK?

 

I was obviously talking about classics, you know, with carburetors;-) He no doubt has some moderns too but classics are far more enjoyable a much better experience.

 

LD

 

C'mon now !?!
Why try to introduce common sense logic to speculators-pretending-to-be-car-guys preferring to be enamored by their Hammer & Sickle apps over reality ?
Sometimes I wish these auction houses would start offering bridges and alike ? Would be a hoot to watch these same speculators falling over each other expressing their opinions on "market" & "values" of those too.

 

well dammit, the car was probably sitting a couple hundred yards from the FBO when I landed Wed. KMRY was a madhouse, I was so eager to get on my way to the Gooding tent I never even questioned what was going on. That was one of the very very few legit from-new Type 35 Raceabouts, would've loved to see it...

 

While I've always believed pictures/photos can be misleading (some hugely), but based on those provided on the above listing along with my recent, few months of intimate time spent with a single owner C/4, not to mention my general firsthand photo-documentation experiences with numerous unrestored, original condition/configuration vintage cars in past 4+ decades, I would tend to agree with Dyke & Alberto this appearing to be just an average car with fair amount non-original details & features.
And let's not forget the fact that mechanical & technical aspects of any car offered through an auction can be a huge crap shoot if not inspected/tested prior to bidding.

 

This ^^ is an excellent summary of how & why my beloved hobby & lifelong passion has been infiltrated by all these poser/speculator/wannabes desperately trying to identify as "car guys" and just nearly ruined it for true enthusiasts.
They have no passion for cars or what they were made for, i.e. driving.

 

You obviously have a massive issue with the commercialized side of the vintage car world, so I have to wonder... Why are you reading - and more so bothering to post in - this thread?

Like it or not, vintage cars - particularly Ferraris - are widely considered a genuine alternative asset, in the same way fine art and collectible wines are... And it's not like this is some recent devolution of your "beloved hobby"... People have been buying / selling / trading and speculating on these cars since they were new.

To label your fellow thread participants as "wannabes" and "posers" while trying to project some sort of sense of self-ascribed superiority (because you don't participate in the market; only online chat threads that specifically discuss the market ) is, at best, weird, and at worst... well, there are a few ways to describe it.

If you don't like it, cool. But why bother?

 

I think the answer is self evident.

TTR has the time to post, and has an opinion.

Welcome to America.

 

I don’t think anyone who cuts a check for 6 or 7 figures for a hobby at some point in the back of the head think about future value , some appreciation or asset protection.


Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat

 

Freedom of speech, and potentially, a touch more tolerance, as Tolerance is the key word. Reasonability good manners, and good are quintessential.
Ever been to Hyde Park?

Regards, Alberto

 

'Cause he feels like it, just as I do commenting about it. And so do others.
@Prancing 12, what makes you or I, the Freud of turn? We are all guilty, Nuclear fears, the Markets, Unsold / sold cars, gay/non gay rights. Let's all lighten up a notch

It appears that here it is the thing, instead of allowing people to express their thoughts, it is a massive reprisal, chastising and demeaning others' thoughts.
It is a massive "I am right, you are so incredibly wrong, stupid, inane, wasteful of my time, I am the torch bearer, I AM IT!"
It is fortunate firing squads are not allowed, yet.

Who ITF cares? Are we all so touchy? I can imagine talking to the family after a day of F-chat and these topics, ay,ay, ay...

Regards, Alberto

 

+1 many times over. I get old Ferrari V12’s being 150-500k based on model, and a few being over a million or two. They’re valuable cars. But they’re meant to be driven, not be “hard assets” or laundering devices. who is driving their 500 Superfast every weekend, or pushing their 275 GTB/4 to the upper rev limit in the mountains, or taking their 330 GTC on a 6 day, 2000 mile road trip? I know there are a few, but they are very few and far between.

I would much rather be the guy who drives a $200k vintage car hard and creates memories, than be the guy who pays 10 million for a car to talk about what someone else did with it 40 years ago.

 

I actually never said TTR was wrong or that he's not allowed to express his thoughts and I didn't feel I was being "touchy"...

I simply questioned why he continually posted off-topic remarks, counter to the title and spirit of the thread. Beyond that, it seemed rather distasteful to call other participants "wannabes" and "posers" - simply for participating in a thread specifically about auctions / prices / results, in a sub-section titled "Vintage Ferrari Market"...

FerrariChat is a big place and this little corner is one of the few that's specifically dedicated to buying, selling & valuations... You know, the market. There's another entire section dedicated to the general discussion of vintage cars with hundreds of threads, and dozens of other sections and thousands of other threads that aren't specifically intended (as indicated by title) to discuss the market.

If I were to go to the 348/355 section and there was a thread titled "Bright Pink F355s" and all of the owners and interested parties were discussing their affection of all things bright pink F355s, I'd find it similarly distasteful and strange for someone that has no interest in bright pink F355s to post that he finds another model superior to F355s and furthermore, he feels that those that like discussing bright pink F355s are "posers" and "wannabes"... Again, like cool that you feel that way and that's fine if that's your opinion, but then why are you even here?

In the end, I'm not trying to police the thread and posters, and the easiest thing to do is go back to what I typically do in the past - disregard most posts by TTR.

So... how 'bout them auctions? On a more relevant note, someone pointed out to me that LW, the consignor of the 410 Sport at RM, paid $23mm for it in 2014 - that's quite a haircut! At least someone thought it was a bargain, as I understand it was bought on speculation by a European dealer.

 

You are absolutely right and my reply was not directed at you, simply, to a lot.

Regards, Alberto

 

Incorrect information.
Didn't pay $ 23 M.
And not bought on speculation by Euro dealer.

Marcel Massini

 

I was pointed to the Barchetta listing that stated $23mm was the price paid in 2014, but I hadn't yet bothered (or cared enough) to try and verify. Can you share the actual figure?

And was it not bought on speculation? Or not bought by a EU-based dealer? The exact phrasing was something along the lines of: "might have a buyer for it", implying he bought it anyways, without firm commitment and not bought on behalf of a waiting end-user...

 

The 365 GTC/4 has also been Brandon Wang's car of choice in multiple Tour Autos, keeping his 250 GTO for start & finish.

 

in all fairness he did not really follow the TA exact route, but preferred the Relais Chateaux and 3 stars Michelin to the PP cantines around the Tour, so he could also take a more comfortable car