News

Monterey auction week thread

Discussion in 'Vintage Ferrari Market' started by Timmmmmmmmmmy, Jun 30, 2019.

  1. technom3

    technom3 F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 29, 2007
    4,640
    Phoenix AZ
    Full Name:
    Justin

    Don't worry the crowd will have plenty of shill bidders
     
    LARRYH and Timmmmmmmmmmy like this.
  2. nschots

    nschots Formula Junior

    Jan 7, 2011
    275
    Buenos Aires.
    Full Name:
    Nicolás Sch.
    One of the best, if not the best, McLaren F1 road car chassis #018 is coming up for auction at RM. Stay tuned.
     
    DRYHOLE, GHG and Timmmmmmmmmmy like this.
  3. GHG

    GHG Formula 3

    Jan 29, 2008
    1,405
    DRYHOLE and nschots like this.
  4. malcolmjl

    malcolmjl Karting

    Mar 27, 2014
    128
    los angeles
    I've heard the same rumor. Great car and should fetch a handsome sum. There will be a McLaren F1 class at the Quail as well so there should be plenty of the cars around the Peninsula this year!
     
    nschots and GHG like this.
  5. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 5, 2010
    2,099
    NZ
    Full Name:
    Timothy Russell
    One of three McLaren F1s ever to be in NZ, along with the Whittakers family car (#049) and a prototype (XP4) that has long since gone. Not bad for a tiny little country.
     
    nschots likes this.
  6. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 22, 2004
    6,121
    Netherlands
    Full Name:
    Tom Wiggers
    Source: McLaren

    “Andrew Bagnall’s McLaren F1 (018) is one of only two in the world fitted with the extra high downforce package, featuring dramatic aerodynamic modifications, and a 680bhp LM-spec race engine.

    He’s owned many exotic and amazing cars which have eventually been sold on, but this is one car Andrew Bagnall will never part with.
     
    Timmmmmmmmmmy likes this.
  7. dim

    dim Karting

    Nov 5, 2003
    131
  8. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    14,151
    Super special car! First time on market in 50 years. Very rare and basically unique. Fantastic Vignale coachwork.

    Marcel Massini
     
  9. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 5, 2010
    2,099
    NZ
    Full Name:
    Timothy Russell
    #34 Timmmmmmmmmmy, Jul 22, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2019
    Gooding have now finalised their consignments for their Pebble Beach sale on August 16 & 17th and it appeared they were limiting themselves to offering plenty of cars in the $5 - 10 mm category. The last selected consignment was the mighty fine 250GT California Long Wheelbase #1055GT which is something of a freequent flyer and offered at a price thats hard to comprehend but good luck to them.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    The Ferrari on offer are

    1952 Ferrari 212 Inter Vignale Coupe 0221EL * $1,700,000.00 $2,000,000.00
    1956 Ferrari 250GT Boano 0581GT $500,000.00 $600,000.00
    1958 Ferrari 250GT Tour de France 0903GT * $5,500,000.00 $6,000,000.00
    1958 Ferrari 250GT LWB California 1055GT * $11,000,000.00 $13,000,000.00
    1958 Ferrari 250GT Pininfarina Spider 0789GT * $7,000,000.00 $8,000,000.00
    1962 Ferrari 400SA Aerodynamico Coupe 3361SA * $2,800,000.00 $3,400,000.00
    1965 Ferrari 275GTB Alloy Longnose 08011 * $3,500,000.00 $4,000,000.00
    1965 Ferrari 275GTB 06887 * $1,500,000.00 $1,800,000.00
    1967 Ferrari 330GTS 9787 * $2,000,000.00 $2,400,000.00
    1969 Ferrari 365GTC 12187 * $675,000.00 $750,000.00
    1969 Ferrari 365GTB/4 12301 * $1,200,000.00 $1,500,000.00
    1969 Ferrari 365GT 2+2 12751 $250,000.00 $325,000.00
    1972 Ferrari 365GTC/4 14871 * $350,000.00 $425,000.00
    1972 Ferrari 246GT Dino 03656 $400,000.00 $500,000.00
    1973 Ferrari 365GTB/4 16501 * $750,000.00 $850,000.00
    1975 Ferrari 312T 022 * $6,000,000 $8,000,000
    1990 Ferrari F40 84944 * $1,200,000.00 $1,400,000.00
    1997 Ferrari F50 106765 * $2,800,000.00 $3,200,000.00
    2001 Ferrari 550 Barchetta 124044 $350,000.00 $400,000.00
    2004 Ferrari 575M Maranello 136320 $100,000.00 $130,000.00 N/R
    2005 Ferrari 575 Superamerica 143103 $275,000.00 $325,000.00 N/R
    2007 Ferrari F430 Challenge 152244 * $100,000.00 $130,000.00 N/R
    2008 Ferrari 430 Scuderia 164334 * $220,000.00 $260,000.00 N/R
    2011 Ferrari 599 GTO 177203 * $600,000.00 $700,000.00
    2013 Ferrari 458 Spider 194210 $230,000.00 $260,000.00 N/R
    2014 Ferrari La Ferrari 207440 * $2,800,000.00 $3,200,000.00
    2014 Ferrari Sergio 205934 * $2,500,000.00 $3,000,000.00
    2017 Ferrari F12 70th Anniversary 228828 $450,000.00 $550,000.00
    2018 Ferrari GTC4 Lusso 70th Anniversary 233793 $375,000.00 $425,000.00

    And the other star cars are the:

    1939 Alfa Romeo Tipo 256 Touring Berlinetta 915*014 * $2,750,000.00 $3,500,000.00
    1913 Isotta - Fraschini Tipo IM 0451 * $3,000,000.00 $4,000,000.00
    1961 Aston Martin DB4GT DB4GT/0130/L * $4,000,000.00 $4,500,000.00
    1953 Alfa Romeo 6C3000CM Superflow IV AR1361*00128 * $6,000,000.00 $8,000,000.00

    Personally I would take the 250GT Pininfarina Cabriolet Series I, the beautiful 212 Inter, one of the Alfa Romeo's or my fave car across the week, the mighty Isotta.

    As ever full details of all the auctions will be available at www.autoauctionsmonthly.com
     
    paulchua, Prancing 12 and ag512bbi like this.
  10. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 5, 2010
    2,099
    NZ
    Full Name:
    Timothy Russell
    Bonhams have also announced their consignments and have added a second day, the Thursday and the Friday August 15th & 16th. Rather than anything truly expensive, Bonhams have announced just one (maybe two) car(s) that should sell for more than $5 million. Leading the way is a ridiculously original 340 America with unique Vignale Berlinetta coachwork and one of the six Porsche 718 RSK with centre steering.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    All of their Ferraris are:

    1951 Ferrari 340 America Vignale Coupe 0132A * On request On request
    1958 Ferrari 250GT Ellena 0861GT $750,000 $950,000
    1964 Ferrari 330GT 2 + 2 5973 $375,000 $450,000
    1966 Ferrari 330GTC 9333 On request On request N/R
    1966 Ferrari 330GT 2 + 2 Series II 8361 $260,000 $310,000
    1971 Ferrari 365GTC/4 14461 $200,000 $250,000
    1974 Ferrari 308GT4 10746 $40,000 $60,000 N/R
    1977 Ferrari 308GTB 22475 $70,000 $90,000 N/R
    1979 Ferrari 308GTB 27927 $100,000 $130,000 N/R
    1980 Ferrari 308GTBi 33487 * $80,000 $100,000 N/R
    1982 Ferrari 308GTSi 38767 * $70,000 $90,000 N/R
    1986 Ferrari Mondial Convertible 61073 $45,000 $60,000 N/R
    1986 Ferrari 328GTS 64385 $90,000 $110,000 N/R
    1989 Ferrari F40 79763 * $1,200,000 $1,500,000
    1995 Ferrari F355 Spider 104008 * $70,000 $90,000 N/R
    1998 Ferrari F355 Spider 109833 $70,000 $90,000 N/R
    1999 Ferrari F355 Spider 113089 $80,000 $100,000 N/R
    2004 Ferrari F360 Challenge Stradale 134376 * $175,000 $225,000
    2009 Ferrari F430M Scuderia 16M 167276 $270,000 $320,000
    2011 Ferrari 458 Italia 180805 $160,000 $190,000 N/R
    2017 Ferrari F12 TDf 222634 * $975,000 $1,100,000
    2018 Ferrari 488 Challenge ZFF87EXX000227921 * $225,000 $250,000

    And their other highlights are:

    128 1953 Fiat 8V Ghia Supersonic 106*000043 * $1,750,000 $1,950,000
    154 1932 Auburn 12-160A Boattail Speedster 12-160A 1991E * $1,800,000 $2,400,000
    125 1965 De Tomaso P70 Barchetta P70-001 * $2,000,000 $3,000,000
    44 1931 Bentley 4.5 Litre Blower Le Mans Tourer Rep. MS3942 * $2,750,000 $3,750,000
    147 1937 Delahaye 135M Competition Court Guillore Roadster 47471 * $3,250,000 $3,750,000

    The Delahaye is a full concours winner in waiting and stunning, the De Tomaso is a Olczyk car (what happened to him and as an unraced prototype offered at 5 - 10 times the price of any other Shelby Group 7 car and the description gives no confidence there is much original in the car either which kind of fits with the aforementioned character) but my two faves are the 340 America or maybe the ex Cunningham Fiat 8V.

    As ever full details of all the auctions will be available at www.autoauctionsmonthly.com. RM, Mecum, Russo & Steele AND Worldwide to come when they finalise their consignments.
     
  11. ag512bbi

    ag512bbi F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Nov 8, 2003
    6,417
    So. Cal
    Full Name:
    Armen
    Timothy, Always appreciated!
     
    paulchua and Timmmmmmmmmmy like this.
  12. Vintage V12

    Vintage V12 Formula 3

    Aug 11, 2004
    1,439
    Interesting nose on 08011
     
  13. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 5, 2010
    2,099
    NZ
    Full Name:
    Timothy Russell
    RM Sothebys have announced their consignments for Monterey and they are the only auction house to offer anything over $20 million

    The Ferrari's on offer are

    1952 Ferrari 225S Vignale Spider 0214ED * $4,000,000 $5,000,000
    1955 Ferrari 375MM Ghia Coupe 0476AM * $5,000,000 $7,000,000
    1961 Ferrari 400SA Aerodynamico Coupe 2631SA * $2,900,000 $3,500,000
    1961 Ferrari 250GT Pininfarina Cabriolet Series II 3009GT * $1,500,000 $1,800,000
    1962 Ferrari 196SP 0806 * $8,000,000 $10,000,000
    1962 Ferrari 250GT California SWB 4131GT * $10,500,000 $13,000,000
    1962 Ferrari 250GT Short Wheelbase 3359GT * $8,000,000 $10,000,000 N/R
    1966 Ferrari 275GTB 08603 * $2,200,000 $2,400,000
    1966 Ferrari 275GTB Alloy Longnose 08497 * $2,900,000 $3,500,000
    1968 Ferrari 365GTC 11969 * $500,000 $600,000
    1969 Ferrari 365GTS 12163 * $2,250,000 $2,750,000
    1971 Ferrari 365GTB/4 14189 * $675,000 $750,000
    1972 Ferrari 365GTB/4 15569 $725,000 $775,000
    1972 Ferrari 246GT 04970 $475,000 $550,000
    1984 Ferrari 512BBi 50965 * $350,000 $425,000 N/R
    1985 Ferrari 288GTO 55237 * $2,550,000 $2,800,000
    1985 Ferrari 308GTS QV Targa 55969 * $100,000 $150,000 N/R
    1986 Ferrari Testarossa 66469 $150,000 $200,000 N/R
    1991 Ferrari F40 87568 * $1,500,000 $1,800,000
    1995 Ferrari F512M 104065 $325,000 $375,000
    1995 Ferrari F50 103351 * $3,000,000 $3,500,000
    1997 Ferrari F355 Spider 107584 * $125,000 $150,000 N/R
    1999 Ferrari 550 Maranello 115751 * $150,000 $175,000 N/R
    2004 Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale 134741 * $220,000 $240,000 N/R
    2006 Ferrari FXX 146355 * $2,850,000 $3,250,000
    2007 Ferrari F430 Spider 156806 * $200,000 $250,000 N/R
    2008 Ferrari 430 Scuderia 161467 * $180,000 $220,000 N/R
    2013 Ferrari 458 Spider 193700 * $225,000 $275,000 N/R
    2014 Ferrari LaFerrari 205297 * $2,900,000 $3,400,000
    2017 Ferrari F12tdf 223687 * $850,000 $950,000
    2018 Ferrari 488GTB 70th Anniversary 232129 $375,000 $450,000

    Further highlights are

    1974 BMW 3.5 CSL IMSA 2275987 * $1,500,000 $2,200,000
    2014 Pagani Huayra Tempesta ZA9H11UA7ESF76097 * $2,000,000 $2,400,000
    1930 Bentley Speed Six HJ Mulliner Sportsmans Saloon LR2778 * $2,600,000 $3,200,000
    2017 Pagani Huayra Roadster ZA9H12UA0HSF76016 * $2,750,000 $3,250,000
    1961 Aston Martin DB4GT DB4GT/0162/R * $3,000,000 $3,400,000
    1954 Maserati A6GCS Sports Racer 2078 * $3,250,000 $3,750,000
    1965 Aston Martin DB5 DB5/2008/R * $4,000,000 $6,000,000
    1960 Porsche RS60 718-044 * $5,750,000 $7,750,000
    1965 Ford GT40 Roadster GT/108 * $7,000,000 $9,000,000
    1953 Aston Martin DB3S DB3S/2 * $8,750,000 $10,500,000
    1994 McLaren F1 Le Mans SA9AB5AC1R1048018 * $21,000,000 $23,000,000
    1939 Porsche Type 64 38/41 * On request On request

    It will be fascinating to watch this sale as it is really the only one to test the markets desire for quite so much top flight stuff. The McLaren is amazing but I note that like last years Ferrari 250GTO, it is offered with a price guaranteed by a third party so it will sell but maybe not as a perfectly executed auction between two or more bidders. Also can't quite get my head around the 1939 Porsche Type 64 being worth $20 mm or more, I mean its got 32bhp and while super cool, its not beautiful, although Porsche fans are a unique bunch with some special values so it might be worth all that to them. The Aston DB3S, Ford GT40 Roadster, Porsche RS60, McLaren, ex Goldfinger Aston DB5, Bentley Speed Six, California, 196SP, 375MM and 225S would be a highlight in any collection so this really will be a sale to watch. While I get the feeling that it will either be a huge success or a flop, if anyone can sell cars well, its RM Sothebys.

    As ever full details of all the auctions will be available at www.autoauctionsmonthly.com. Coverage of Mecum, Russo & Steele AND Worldwide could still be a couple of weeks away and both Mecum and R&S wont be finalised til the day of sale but we will do our best to offer an accurate lot list.
     
    Patek likes this.
  14. davemqv

    davemqv F1 Rookie

    Aug 28, 2014
    3,003
    USA
    Full Name:
    Dave
    I just finished scrolling through the Ferrari's on auction at Sotheby's and Gooding. Have I been missing a recent uptrend in the market, or do some of these estimates seem very optimistic. Estimate on a 365 QM at Gooding is $250- 325k? With premium they've been going for $220k (200k hammer price) for the last couple of years. Same with the private market from what I can tell.

    Same thing for the C/4 on offer. There have been several just sitting for well over a year at mid 200's, so $350-$425k seems a bit pie in the sky. And it seems they're trying to pump Daytona's back up as well, ignoring the reality of many sales in the 600k range and aiming for high 7's.

    And while I love 12301 on it's own individual merits, and appreciate what a special car it is as the first production Daytona, is it really worth twice what the next one out of the factory is worth? Seems like a stretch.

    What am I missing? They have to believe these cars will meet estimates, right? Lest there be a lack of credibility in proposed values to future sellers? But recent records I've seen don't support the estimates.
     
  15. gcalex

    gcalex Karting

    Aug 16, 2010
    141
    Mostly New Hampshire USA
    Full Name:
    Alex
    While I don’t know what the “customary” assumptions are, I’ve come to the conclusion that in many cases, it makes sense to treat the estimates as inclusive of the buyer’s premiums; certainly some of the auction house list the with-premium numbers right next to their estimates...

    At least with regard to the Daytonas (the only cars that I have recently been monitoring), the various cars on offer do all seem to be offering something beyond the norms of some of the cars that have been trading for lower figures. Not sure if the magnitudes are rational, but some extra realized value seems reasonable.

    The RM Daytona slated for Auburn seems more “average”, and has a low estimate that (if it includes premium) seems realizable.
     
    davemqv likes this.
  16. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 5, 2010
    2,099
    NZ
    Full Name:
    Timothy Russell
    Yes and no, the 365/C4 at Gooding has been restored to a high level, an uneconomic prospect and its unlikely that even at the ask there will be any money in it for the owner. Otherwise its fair to note that many vendors are still living at market peak which was 5 years ago and havent accepted the new realities are that most cars are 10-20% minimum lower.
     
  17. davemqv

    davemqv F1 Rookie

    Aug 28, 2014
    3,003
    USA
    Full Name:
    Dave
    Thanks gents. That all makes sense. I assumed they included the premium in the estimate. But even at that the nicely restored C/4 would have to hammer at $320k to meet the low end of the estimate. Possible I guess, if there's a buyer out there who wants that exact spec. Personally I think it's dangerous to assume that restoration costs can be recouped on regular production cars, even if they are done very nicely and to original specs. A car is only original once and once that's been changed it seems like potential buyers might be more inclined to pay less for a lesser condition car that they can then spend the extra money bringing up to their own ideal specs. That would be my way of doing it, but that's just me projecting.
     
    Timmmmmmmmmmy likes this.
  18. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 5, 2010
    2,099
    NZ
    Full Name:
    Timothy Russell
    I agree with your premise(s) although its all personal taste and you can see the value in having someone buy a $200k car, spend $200k getting everything right and selling it for $300k, I mean even if you hated the livery, you could get a top notch repaint for $40k or whatever, you are still making money. Plenty of people at Monterey will be buying on behalf of the trade and they will be bargain hunting. I note that most sub $300k cars at the big three are offered at no reserve and the opportunities for cashed up buyers in the lower categories will be far better than previous years.
     
  19. Prancing 12

    Prancing 12 Formula 3

    May 11, 2004
    2,287
    The long way home
    It has seemed for a while now that actual hammer prices routinely fall well below the low estimate on many lots.

    My guess would be that this is the auction house version of "better to ask for forgiveness than permission" - give the consignor the estimate they want in order to secure the lot and then work the **** out of them to cut it loose when the real bids come in at a lower level.

    Buyers may note the estimates, but I doubt many let them govern their bidding. ;)
     
    davemqv and Timmmmmmmmmmy like this.
  20. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    14,151
    In almost all cases the problem today is NOT the auction company. Auction companies want to sell, sell, sell, the more the better, whatever it takes. That's the only way to make money. They have no interest in unsold lots.
    It is the seller/consignor who still hasn't been willing to accept reality, that the market has seen a clear correction of up to 35 percent, since 2015.
    Some consignors simply want to test the market, others don't understand and are not willing to learn.

    Marcel Massini
     
    DRYHOLE, KenGoldman, 375+ and 3 others like this.
  21. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 5, 2010
    2,099
    NZ
    Full Name:
    Timothy Russell
    Completely agree. I find it interesting that post GFC there are still large groups of supposedly wealthy (and smart) people using Adjustable Rate Loans that have low teaser rates, perhaps 1% but then balloon payments. Either they are smart and parking wealth off shore and using it as security against a cheap loan or have been encouraged to a debt level that is unsustainable. This leaves two groups in 2019, the buyers who can use structured finance or sheer amounts of cash to get some bargains and those who are like the proverbial swan and paddling hard to just keep themselves afloat who will be selling before too long. As it is we are seeing an oversupply with double the numbers of lots on offer at Monterey in 2019 than there were back in 2011/2012 and that is pushing everything down. Just my 2 cents.
     
  22. Prancing 12

    Prancing 12 Formula 3

    May 11, 2004
    2,287
    The long way home
    We absolutely agree that the auctions need to sell... But in order to sell, they need consignments.

    It's not uncommon in many consignment or commission sales arenas, be it car auctions, real estate, whatever - tell the seller what they want to hear inorder to get the lot / listing / items, etc... Then, once you've got a secure mandate (and in the case of the auctions, often a post-sale exclusivity period), you hit them between the eyes with a "real" price. Once the seller has given up possession of their vehicle by shipping it across the country (or around the world), most of the work is done... Mentally, a lot of sellers really don't want to drag their unsold lots home, which is a perfect time for the auction house to administer the medicine :D
     
    DRYHOLE and 375+ like this.
  23. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 5, 2010
    2,099
    NZ
    Full Name:
    Timothy Russell
    Mecums Ferrari lot list is pretty speculative but of the 482 current lots, there are 20 Ferrari's
    F113 1954 Ferrari 250 Monza 0432M * On request On request
    F122 1966 Ferrari 275GTS 07967 * $1,100,000.00 $1,400,000.00
    F119 1967 Ferrari 275GTB/4 10735 * $2,500,000.00 $3,000,000.00
    F123 1967 Ferrari 330GTC 10457 $450,000.00 $600,000.00
    S145 1967 Ferrari 330GTC 09955 $500,000.00 $600,000.00
    S95 1972 Ferrari 365GTC/4 15359 $300,000.00 $350,000.00
    S89 1973 Ferrari 246GTS 05498 $375,000.00 $400,000.00
    S113 1973 Ferrari 365GTB/4 Daytona 16537 $725,000.00 $800,000.00
    S130 1984 Ferrari 512BBi 50285 $250,000.00 $300,000.00
    S26 1988 Ferrari Testarossa 75352
    T197 1991 Ferrari Testarossa 86474
    T59 1993 Ferrari Mondial T Cabriolet 93501
    F90 1995 Ferrari F355 Spider 103634 $100,000.00 $125,000.00
    F71 1999 Ferrari F355 Super Serie Fiorano 115937 $90,000.00 $110,000.00
    S170 2000 Ferrari 550 Maranello 121851 $150,000.00 $175,000.00
    S16 2004 Ferrari 360 Spider ?
    S173 2005 Ferrari 575 Superamerica 145103 $350,000.00 $400,000.00
    S176 2006 Ferrari F430 Spider 151053 $190,000.00 $220,000.00
    S107 2011 Ferrari 599GTO 176914 $500,000.00 $550,000.00
    S102 2014 Ferrari LaFerrari 207602 * $2,750,000.00 $3,500,000.00
    S180 2017 Ferrari F12 70th Anniversary 228803 $365,000.00 $435,000.00
     
  24. 375+

    375+ F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 28, 2005
    6,841
    330 GTC s/n 9955 leading the Mecum Frequent Flyer competition.
     
    Timmmmmmmmmmy likes this.
  25. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    14,151
    I came up with 23 lots at Mecum. You listed 21 but stated 20.

    Marcel Massini
     

Share This Page