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Monterey auction week thread

Discussion in 'Vintage Ferrari Market' started by Timmmmmmmmmmy, Jun 30, 2019.

  1. roma1280

    roma1280 F1 Rookie
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    So best case scenario the seller got the $820k hammer price, so add in sales tax and insurance and other costs from new and premium is pretty much gone.
     
  2. Jeff Kennedy

    Jeff Kennedy F1 Rookie
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    Mike Sheehan is doing a nice series on the Ferrari F1 cars. These pre-turbo cars are regarded as able to be used without requiring a complete support team.

    As far as Lauda versus Shumi and Senna, Lauda was considered the top of his class at the time and would have had an additional WDC if not for the accident. Might have had multiple more, and almost had one with the B3 - talent was not the problem.
     
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  3. nis1973

    nis1973 Formula Junior

    Jan 19, 2013
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    I’d put him up there. A legend...
     
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  4. BJK

    BJK Formula Junior

    Jul 18, 2014
    577
    CT
    A racing legend, yes. But not as embraced by fans as Shumi. I mean, when your nickname is 'The Rat', ....... and so, are your former race cars going to bring the very highest price? probably not. Again, $6 mil not bad.
     
  5. gcalex

    gcalex Karting

    Aug 16, 2010
    107
    Looked reasonable in the pics, probably not a Platinum car, however, and it is not a time-capsule either, so the estimate (if met) would probably have represented a tangible up-tick in the market.

    Wish I could have made it out there to see exactly the actual condition of the various Daytons for myself, but my guess is that this car may not have been as nice as it looked in the catalogue. If that is the case, $577k-all-in for average car is not *that* far below what the market has looked like all year...

    So the sale price may not have been all that off, but nevertheless, I would not be surprised if there were some seller’s remorse here.
     
  6. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

    Nov 19, 2008
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    RM Sotheby's.

    1939 Porsche Type 64 high bid $17,000,000.
     
  7. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

    Dec 4, 2004
    12,259
    Estimated "in excess of $20 million" per multiple articles on it prior. No sale...another one 15%+ under estimate...
     
  8. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3

    Apr 5, 2010
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    Hilarious to listen to ten Holder say $13 million and the screen showing $30 million. Indeed at times it sounded like forty and fifty but when it got to seventy on screen I thought not even Porsche fanatics could be that crazy. High teens was all the money surely, may have been less than the seller wanted, but take it and run, unlikely to get more next time.
     
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  9. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    #134 miurasv, Aug 17, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2019
    Yes, I thought it sounded like the auctioneer said the bids were at $70M. They were getting very excited and noisy in the room. Then reality was realised and everyone came back to earth!
     
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  10. Ferrari 308 GTB

    Ferrari 308 GTB F1 Veteran

    Feb 21, 2015
    5,480
    Have a link to RM? thanks.
     
  11. 375+

    375+ F1 Veteran
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    #136 375+, Aug 18, 2019
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 18, 2019
    Tonight at RM.
    I was in the room. Martin ten Holder was saying “thirty, forty, fifty, sixty” until it reached 70 and he pronounced “seventeen”.
    It was ******** !
    The perfect postscript for a disastrous week in the market.
     
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  12. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 22, 2004
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    I count about 50 lots "still for sale" from RMS.

    It looks like the Gooding website hasn't been fully updated yet.
     
  13. BJK

    BJK Formula Junior

    Jul 18, 2014
    577
    CT
    1994 McLaren LM-Spec F1, RM Sotheby’s, est. $21 to $23 million, sold for $19.8
     
  14. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3

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    #139 Timmmmmmmmmmy, Aug 18, 2019
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 18, 2019
    On the internet it sounded more like thirty, then thirteen, fourty, fifteen, sixteen and seventeen. So totally crazy and the live dollar amount was showing it as $30, $40, $50 etc. I actually believed that a Porsche fan would pay $30, maybe even $50 million but realised it was a f..k up when it went higher than that. Didnt help that my internet feed was giving me the audio but the video froze half way through lol
     
  15. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3

    Apr 5, 2010
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    Sure it did but the Porsche Typ. 64 was given no official estimate, just the old "on request" BUT all marketing said $20 million or more so if the $17 was legit, it should probably have sold. Especially at the $70 million RM showed on screen!
     
  16. ginge82

    ginge82 Formula 3

    Jul 23, 2012
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    Art Corvelay
    I wouldn't be surprised if the owner of that Porsche had some very strong words with RM about that auctioneer. He sucked the air out of any bidding after that disaster. He was so unaware of what was happening it was surreal.

    He blew it.
     
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  17. italiancars

    italiancars Formula 3

    Apr 18, 2004
    2,433
    Hershey, PA
    Anyone know what brave soul bought the Ghia bodied Maserati 5000 GT at 533k?
     
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  18. 19633500GT

    19633500GT F1 Veteran
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    I don't think it was disastrous for the market at all.

    I think two things (continued) to happen.

    1. insane, inflated, out of control estimates continue to roll out to clients listing a car with an auction company. Nothing makes you feel better than seeing the "experts" put a large number on your car. These numbers mean absolutely zip if there isn't a buyer in the room, on the phone, or nobody cares...

    2. Realistic cars, with good provenance and limited stories, sell for realistic money, to realistic buyers, listed by realistic sellers. That's how it all works.

    The rest is blowhard fluff perpetuated by big money, big business, and the sneaky art of shilling.

    PS. ask me how I really feel :D
     
  19. Juan-Manuel Fantango

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  20. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

    Dec 4, 2004
    12,259
    The F1 was sold for $18. Estimates don't include the 10% fees so it was about 15% off the low estimate. Unless something changed and all-in fees are part of estimate values now...
     
  21. 375+

    375+ F1 Veteran
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    Ken you might get in touch with Gooding & Company, they could use a pep talk;)
     
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  22. 19633500GT

    19633500GT F1 Veteran
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    I just find it funny to have watched since 2011-12 time frame, we've gone from cars selling for OVERESTIMATES to selling in the sweet spot of estimates, to now "underselling" the estimates.

    Gooding just needs to manage expectations better. Oh, and they ALL need to be less greedy, then no one would cry about terrible sell through %'s lol
     
  23. George Vosburgh

    George Vosburgh F1 Rookie

    May 26, 2011
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    #148 George Vosburgh, Aug 18, 2019
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 18, 2019
    We definitely need to have coffee when you get back!
     
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  24. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Three Time F1 World Champ
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  25. KenGoldman

    KenGoldman Formula Junior
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    May 25, 2009
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    Kenneth Goldman
    In going to auctions for over 50 years, I am 99.5% certain that there was no "High Bid" there. The terms of the auction state that the auctioneer can bid up to the reserve by placing several consecutive bids on behalf of the seller. So even though we heard 13, 14, 15, 16, there could be no actual bids at all. The reports that state "High Bid of 17" means nothing at all.

    Ken Goldman
     

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