More GTO chat | Page 39 | FerrariChat

More GTO chat

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by Bob Zambelli, Sep 11, 2007.

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  1. GHG

    GHG Formula 3

    Jan 29, 2008
    1,892
  2. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy F1 Rookie

    Apr 5, 2010
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    Timothy Russell
    Who can forget when Lotus were threatening the French teams dominance in the thermal efficiency and smaller classes and Jim Clark was faster than anyone at the 1962 Nurburgring 1000km leading the entire field on lap 1 with his 1.5 litre Coventry Climax powered Lotus 23B. Despite having already received scrutineering approval for the Ring and despite conversations with the ACO proving successful the cars failed scrutineering at Le Mans. To quote Wiki

    The 23s failed to pass the scrutineering on several technical grounds, including an insufficient windscreen height, fuel tank capacity being too large, turning circle too large, ground clearance too small, and the spare tyre requirement not met.[4][5] Fitted with a makeshift tall wind screen, all but the spare tyre issue was rectified almost immediately.

    The original 23 and the later 23B had 4 stud front and 6 stud rear wobbly-web wheels, and carried the narrower and lighter front wheel with its tyre mounted as the spare. (23C had wider 6 stud front and rear wheels.)

    The French scrutineers argued the requirement to carry a spare tyre is for the purpose of changing a flat, which is not satisfied by the 23 in the case of a flat occurring on one of the rear tyres. So the Lotus factory had a 4 stud rear hubs drafted and machined over-night, and had a person carry them and flown to Le Mans the next day. After being presented with the 23s with 4 stud rears installed, the scrutineers rejected again on the grounds that the 6 stud configuration must have been a reflection of strength requirement in the original design, so the 4 stud configuration was deemed unsafe.

    The scrutineers and the ACO did not change this position even after Mike Costin, the Lotus engineer on site, offered to go over structural analysis calculations showing the difference falls within the safety margin built in the design to accommodate more powerful 1,098 cc (67.0 cu in) Cosworth Mk.IV and 1,475 cc (90.0 cu in) Cosworth Mk.VII engines.

    One of the two Lotus 23s with 4 stud rears, with Cosworth Mk.III 997 cc (60.8 cu in) engine, was sold off sans engine on the spot to the 1 litre class winning driver of the event, with a lease on the engine and support contract attached, on a strict condition imposed by Chapman to keep the 4 stud configuration for longer than one racing season. The French driver/buyer, fr:Bernard Consten, not only obliged but won Clermont-Ferrand 6 Hours and 1000 km of Montlhery that year with this 23 without breaking the studs, the hub, or the wheel.

    Team Lotus remained on the scene for the entire 1962 event supporting and winning the 1.3 litre GT class and the Index of Performance prize by a Lotus Elite driven by David Hobbs and Frank Gardner. ACO officials then made the situation worse in admitting a mistake, offering a financial compensation for the 23 entries after the race. With pro-Lotus motoring journalist Gérard Crombac (who reported the entire fiasco in a French publication, suggesting the Ferrari 246SP and 268SP had the same ground clearance issue, but were allowed to race unrectified after the Ferrari team threatened to withdraw the entire team) present as the interpreter in the meeting, Chapman suggested a figure which was too large for the officials to swallow. Upon being rejected, Chapman vowed "We will never race again at Le Mans!", a promise that Lotus kept until 1997, long after Chapman's death in 1982.[6]

    Wimpffen in Time and Two Seats is even more uncomplimentary of the French scrutineers at Le Mans.
     
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  3. rjanot

    rjanot Karting

    May 5, 2009
    95
    Thanks a lot. 15 GTO including 4 with 1964 body according to the article and the replies written by Marcel Massini.
    From the photos, I can see :
    3413 (64 body), 3445, 3647, 3705, 3729, 3757 (UK-based), 3765LM (4.0 engine), 3769, 3943, 4091 (64 body), 4293, 4757.
    So 12 cars identified. 3 cars are missing including 2 with 1964 body. Do you know which ones ?
    The article talks about 2 participants with 40+ years ownership : probably 3647 and 3757.
    I think Nick Mason did absolutely all the GTO tours. 3757 is the sole car with this record.
    The article also mentions a GTO changing hands 4 months ago. Which one ?
     
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  4. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy F1 Rookie

    Apr 5, 2010
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    Timothy Russell
    The 12/14 (I have 14 cars present) cars are -

    #3413GT - GTO Series II, Targa '63 4th, Harry Yeaggy
    #3445GT - GTO Le Mans '62 Vacarella/ Scarlatti DNF, Chris Cox
    #3647GT - GTO #11 Paris 1000km '62 Parkes/ Surtees 2nd, Undisclosed (fresh out of 50+ years of single ownership)
    #3705GT - GTO Le Mans '62 Guichet/ Noblet 2nd, Ed Davies
    #3729GT - GTO #10 Tourist Trophy '62 Graham Hill 2nd, Jon Shirley
    #3757GT - GTO #22 Le Mans '62 Beurlys/ Elde 3rd, Nick Mason
    #3765LM - 330GTO #7 Le Mans '62 Parkes/ Bandini DNF, Jim Jaeger
    #3769GT - GTO Le Mans '62 Tavano/ Simon DNF, Tony Wang
    #3943GT - GTO #6 Paris 1000km '62 Noblet/ Guichet 4th, Charles Nearburg
    #4091GT - GTO Series II Tour de France '62 Scarfiotti/ Biscaldi DNF, Peter Sachs
    #4293GT - GTO #24 Le Mans '63 Beurlys/ van Ophem 2nd, Chip Connor
    #4757GT - GTO #20 Le Mans '63 Abate/ Tavano DNF, Tom Price
    #5573GT - GTO Series II #1 Paris 1000km '64 Rodriguez/ Schlesser 2nd, Aaron Hsu
    #5575GT - GTO Series II #24 Le Mans '64 Bianchi/ Beurlys 5th, Rob Walton

    Thanks to the post Covid rules in the USA I know some have struggled to get visa's and the numbers present were well below those that turned out in Italy for the 55th but hey, ho.

    Peter Sachs has owned #4091GT for 40 years, Jaeger has owned #3765LM for 37 years, Nick Mason has owned #3757GT for 44 years and the current record is Anthony Bamford with #4399GT and no less than 53 years of ownership but he wasn't present!
     
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  5. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    22,929
    3527 GT was there as well.

    Marcel Massini
     
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  6. rjanot

    rjanot Karting

    May 5, 2009
    95
    Thanks a lot for the list and the update.

     
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  7. Longstone Tyres

    Longstone Tyres Formula 3
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    Feb 2, 2006
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    Dougal
  8. ERA

    ERA Karting

    Dec 21, 2015
    54
    3647GT
     
  9. SamuliS

    SamuliS Formula Junior

    Aug 23, 2008
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    Finland, Helsinki
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    Samuli S


    Hope you enjoy it. That STACK rev counter jumps out and makes me wonder what is this cars story?
     
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  10. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

    Nov 19, 2008
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    Steven Robertson
    #960 miurasv, Nov 8, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2022
    The story is it's a replica built by Roelofs Engineering using the ID of 250 GTE 2+2 #4817GT.
     
  11. SamuliS

    SamuliS Formula Junior

    Aug 23, 2008
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    Samuli S
    Thank you for your reply.
    That's what I thought. Some how I don't see anyone installing STACK in real one, at least not where the original rev counter would sit.
    Still greatly entertaining, well made, sounds great and car is driven in anger.
     
  12. ERA

    ERA Karting

    Dec 21, 2015
    54
    Yes indeed, this Roelofs is raced by Nicky Pastorelli in Goodwood, Le Mans Classic etc...
    Here it is another video:
     
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  13. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

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    Steven Robertson
    #963 miurasv, Nov 8, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2022
    Here's the replica of 4399 GT also with a STACK. May also be Roelofs made.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    Real (?) 250 GTO 3387 GT has Smiths clocks.
     
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  14. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

    Nov 19, 2008
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    Steven Robertson
    But a full fat fake!
     
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  15. PAUL500

    PAUL500 F1 Rookie

    Jun 23, 2013
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  16. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    22,929
    Nothing to do with a real 250 GTO.
    A replica currently for sale in TX.

    Marcel Massini
     
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  17. Scuderia CC

    Scuderia CC Formula Junior

    Nov 1, 2003
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    Christophe
  18. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Six Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 22, 2004
    69,430
    Moot Pointe
    I could swear that a few days ago I saw a video somebody posted of the recent 250GTO reunion tour. I’ve searched just about every way I know and can’t find it:rolleyes:

    Can somebody help locate it?
    Thanks.
     
  19. JOEV

    JOEV F1 Rookie
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    Aug 6, 2003
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    Joe
    this one?

     
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  20. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Six Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 22, 2004
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    Moot Pointe
    Yes, that’s it. Thank you, Joe. It’s disappointing that it’s only a 2 minute promotion. Maybe in the future they’ll make a more comprehensive video of the tour, or publish a book as has been done with past GTO reunions.
     
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  21. peterp

    peterp F1 Veteran

    Aug 31, 2002
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    I saw an old 1974 episode of "The Rockford Files" a few weeks ago where they were working on a GTO in one scene. I think it was on the screen for a about a minute or so. I can't find a clip of the video, but there is a reference to it here: https://www.imcdb.org/v281247.html

    Apparently it is SN 3897. They weren't valuable cars back then -- but it's pretty cool to see it on screen as a background car.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  22. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    22,929
    3897 GT is a 250 GTE 2+2, not a 250 GTO.

    Marcel Massini
     
  23. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

    Nov 19, 2008
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    Cardiff, UK
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    Steven Robertson

    Just a typo I'm sure. It's 3987 GT.
     
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  24. peterp

    peterp F1 Veteran

    Aug 31, 2002
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    Peter
    Yes, a typo, 3987 is correct (too late to for me to edit to correct that post). If anyone wants to see the episode, all Rockford Files episodes can be streamed free on Tubi, and it looks like it is Season 1 Episode 12 according to the IMDB link I posted previously. Bear in mind that it's only on screen for a little while in one scene.
     
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  25. Edward 96GTS

    Edward 96GTS F1 Veteran
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    Nov 1, 2003
    9,301
    several episodes had exotics in the background. a way to have production company pay for displaying personal cars?
     
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