More money than skills | FerrariChat

More money than skills

Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by Heat Seeker WS6, Apr 29, 2014.

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  1. Heat Seeker WS6

    Heat Seeker WS6 Formula 3

    Nov 4, 2003
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    John G
  2. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    sadly you're looking at the future of "professional" sports car racing, as more and more the sport caters to gentlemen drivers (pro/am series, GT3 cars, etc).
     
  3. BartonWorkman

    BartonWorkman F1 Veteran

    Nov 3, 2003
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    Barton Workman
    He should try NASCAR.

    They only turn left there, much less confusing.

    BHW
     
  4. gt4me

    gt4me F1 Veteran

    Sep 10, 2005
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    Lewis Mitchell
    What a plum.
     
  5. 400iGuy

    400iGuy Formula 3
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    Aug 26, 2004
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    Al
    Why was he allowed to continue? He was endangering the other drivers and himself (and potentially pit crews and spectators!).
     
  6. Devilsolsi

    Devilsolsi F1 Veteran
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    best laugh I have had all day
     
  7. dmundy

    dmundy Formula 3
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    Sep 11, 2010
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    Arthur Dent
    I hear a lot of people say that, and I always have the same question. When was this not the case? It's always been like that.
     
  8. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    #8 GuyIncognito, Apr 30, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2014
    true, to an extent. amateur drivers and privateer teams have always been a part of racing, particularly sports car racing. however, the emphasis has (to the best of my knowledge) never been this focused on them, to the point that we're a) designing cars around them-GT3 and P2 are high downforce, relatively low power, traction control/abs equipped, etc to make them easier to drive for amateurs and b) entire series are being built around them! P2 and GTE-AM globally and P2, PC and GTD in IMSA all focus on pro/am driver combinations to "level the playing field". the whole driver rating controversy is centered around pairing Ams and pros. not to mention the other regional series that cater to Ams, from Ferrari, Lambo, Maser and Porsche "challenge" series to the Blancpain series.

    so we've never had this level of emphasis on amateur drivers in a professional sport...

    that's bad for 3 reasons IMO:

    1) you're no longer a "professional" sports car series when half your drivers are amateurs. that creates a major marketing problem...how do you sell what is effectively glorified club racing to sponsors, TV networks, and fans? people want to see the best of the best compete, not people with big checkbooks.

    2) the product suffers-pros driving edgy race cars at the limit are fun to watch, especially when fighting for position. watching amateurs drive stable race cars at 8/10ths is significantly less interesting, unless they're being a dangerous spectacle like this Russian fellow. again, that goes back to how do you market a series that doesn't produce a compelling product.

    3) the economics don't work for the teams. they're trading long term partnerships for short term cash. when a manufacturer comes into a series it's usually a 3-5 year program with a big budget, for both teams and drivers plus marketing and activation. when an amateur comes in it's rarely more than a 1 year contract and often it's a race to race deal. that creates instability for teams and their employees. it also creates intense short term competition amongst series, witness how teams are taking their ball and going home from IMSA, or playing IMSA off PWC or even WEC.

    I understand that amateur drivers have been and probably always will be a part of sports car racing, but building the sport around them is a bad idea IMHO.
     
  9. jimmyb

    jimmyb Formula 3

    Dec 26, 2005
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    James Bookout
    Indeed, we see how well that worked out for Montoya.

    Jimmy
     
  10. BluNart

    BluNart Karting

    Jul 2, 2013
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    Blu
    Help me understand why race control didn't "black flag" the driver immediately following his limited view entry back on pavement. He must have a license to race but day of the track holds some responsibility for driver safety.
    That's ridiculous.
     
  11. BT

    BT F1 World Champ
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    Mar 21, 2005
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    The track owners wanted the curbs ground down a little bit for years, and this Russian was doing the job for free, so no need to stop him...

    :)
    BT
     
  12. Devilsolsi

    Devilsolsi F1 Veteran
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    They also needed the gravel re-distributed
     
  13. bigodino

    bigodino F1 World Champ
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    Even pros need big wallets in motorsport. It's hard enough financially to get to a proefessional level in karting, let alone the series beyond. People like Hamilton who were scouted for their talent are an exception to the rule. Motorsport is very, very expensive.
     
  14. dmundy

    dmundy Formula 3
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    Yes indeed that's my point. There are very few truly paid drivers in the world. Always have been.
     
  15. SWB

    SWB Formula Junior

    Nov 12, 2006
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    Seth
    What type of licensing did this guy have to earn before they would let him into a GT3 machine? I think we has texting while racing LOL
     
  16. NürScud

    NürScud F1 Veteran

    Nov 3, 2012
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    +1

    I will add that he's very dangerous for the others.
     
  17. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    yes, but there's a huge difference between a professional who must work hard from a young age (often as young as 5 or 6) to build a career and find sponsorship or benefactors, while also honing his craft coming up through the ranks and building decades of experience; versus a middle aged businessman stroking a check and doing the bare minimum (usually a racing school) and being plopped into the middle of a high level competition.
     
  18. tervuren

    tervuren Formula 3

    Apr 30, 2006
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    #18 tervuren, May 2, 2014
    Last edited: May 2, 2014
    When did it change away from this? This is the past, the present, and the future.

    So long as they aren't wrecking someone - go have fun. I'd do it given throw-away money.
     
  19. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    again as I said, it's a matter of degree. the *focus* of the sport has never been on amateurs to the degree it is today. tell me of any other time when major sanctioning bodies codified ranking drivers and then build formulas around who can race with whom in endurance driver lineups.
     
  20. ProRallyCodriver

    ProRallyCodriver Formula 3

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    #20 ProRallyCodriver, May 2, 2014
    Last edited: May 2, 2014
    One theory to the degree increase:

    Global economy took a dump several years back, mega$ corporations scale back marketing in their cost-cutting effort in knee-jerk reaction, motorsport teams lose funding w/ loss of sponsors/marketing partners, many less seats for 'professional' drivers, recession-proof wealthy ameuturs fill the void.
     
  21. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    I think that was roughly the theory...for example, the P2 "cost containment" rules were instituted when Honda (Acura) and Porsche pulled out of P2. at roughly the same time P2 instituted the driver ranking/lineup rules.

    problem is there are very few wealthy amateurs who are truly recession proof, most of them have income/revenue streams tied directly to equity markets or short term boom/bust cycles (witness all the oil guys in IMSA now). so the sport is still vulnerable to recessions, but doesn't have the huge upside seen with big factory programs.
     
  22. MisterMaranello

    MisterMaranello F1 Rookie

    Apr 5, 2011
    3,315
    Europe
    Sorry but I just cannot find his antics funny. He is a severe danger and threat to the safety of other drivers and spectators. Not to mention the volunteer track marshalls.

    The worst thing is the guy apparently blamed other drivers for ever single one of the incidents (read it in some news article).

    I repeat the question posted previously; what sort of license is he on and how did he get it? He should not be allowed to race in such a fast series. Utter madness.

    I hope someone someone takes his actions to the FIA resulting in them revoking his racing license.
     
  23. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
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    I agree with you to a certain extent, but there are way to few long term partnerships going around at the moment to sustain a full racing series, let alone several. If only pro's are allowed than 75% of all racing series will fold. No one wants to see 12 cars in 4 different classes going round a track.

    Without the amateurs playing along (and most of them are decent enough to not be utter fools, hence the Russian is being discussed on motorsport forums world wide), the professionals would mostly be out of a job, having to work jobs to fund their own racing career, which will not be racing Porsche's and Ferrari's on the weekends, but more than likely Renault Clio's if they're lucky. Probably karts (and still not near the top...KF2 series is hugely expensive for instance).

    +1. Expect to spend 60-80k in KF2 alone (and that's not the top bracket of karts either)


    +1

    To get into Blancpain you need to be at least bronze level, explained here (from FIAWEC)

    The Endurance Committee need to look at whatever series the Russian was racing in before and review the next person to come out of there more thoroughly. I'm not sure what the EC looks at when assessing performance but I would think not much more than accomplishments in recent racing history. If the Russian drove in the 'Russian Racing Series' (making a name up now) which consisted mostly of slow cars and he wins in a faster one, of course he's going to get lots of wins and podiums on his CV.
     
  24. MisterMaranello

    MisterMaranello F1 Rookie

    Apr 5, 2011
    3,315
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    #24 MisterMaranello, May 5, 2014
    Last edited: May 5, 2014
    Thanks for the explanation.

    It seems that the term "whose level of performance can be considered at Bronze" is very ambiguous. At least in this case, since its obvious he should never have been allowed to participate in the race. The EC displayed poor judgement by issuing him a Bronze status.
     
  25. It's Ross

    It's Ross Formula 3

    Jul 30, 2007
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    It was the car's fault!

    I don't know that my skills are any better but my judgment certainly is.
     

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