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Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by Bertocchi, Jan 14, 2006.

  1. alebart3

    alebart3 Formula Junior
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    Jun 5, 2008
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    Hi Pete,
    I'm sorry for my bad english...I wish to say that my is often an "insane" country, but you are talking about a Car and a Legend that came from it.
    I'm proud of Ferrari story, one of the few things that make me happy to be italian.
    Ferrary story was made from italian people, and often they was greater than those of the
    U.S. (Ford) or German ones (Porsche).
    I ask you to be a little more generous when you speack about us....or your country is planning to make a car to run at Le Mans or GP's and you wish to start a figth...?
    For the paedophily I agree..for me is a sin as bad as a killing.
    A paedophile kill the dreams of a boy(girl) often for all his(her) life.
    But there are places to speack about this...(Avaaz, ChangeOrg)here we are at FerrariChat!
    Regards,
    Alessandro
     
  2. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
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    Mar 4, 2005
    7,665
    Alessandro,

    well, we can truly debate about that!
    In the 30s the Italian cars were in the dust of the German cars (MB, Auto Union and BMW > 1940 MM), same situation in 1954 and 55 (Mercedes) and in the late 60s/early 70s had no chance against Porsche!

    But for sure the Italians had the better food and weather in those days!:)
     
  3. BIRA

    BIRA Formula Junior

    Jun 15, 2007
    875
    #8228 BIRA, Jan 8, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2014
     
  4. intrepidcva11

    intrepidcva11 F1 Rookie
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    Seth
    Please! You're mixing apples and oranges. Mercedes-Benz, Auto Union, BMW, Porsche all race/raced at the highest levels for a while, then went away for years. Only Ferrari has raced continuously at the very highest level since 1948, that's 66 years, almost two-thirds of a century. And for most of that time Ferrari was a tiny Company struggling to make ends meet. In fairness Porsche has also raced continuously though one cannot say at the highest (F1) level.
     
  5. Jeff Kennedy

    Jeff Kennedy F1 Rookie
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    Your analysis between Ferrari and Porsche should be further clarified.

    Up through the early 1970s Ferrari themselves raced in top tier classes continuously. This included sports cars and F1. The 312PB was the last of the factory run sports car effort. Mostly the GTs were run by privateers. I make this distinction since F1 has not been the sole top tier through the years and much can be said that Ferraris earliest fame came from the sports cars rather than the F1. Their success through the 1950s and 1960s in sports cars/prototypes as they would later be called is just as important, and regularly more consistent in success, as the F1 efforts.

    Porsche although they have a massive commitment to racing as part of their heritage too did not move into top tier classes until the 1960s. Their original F1 effort was not long lived or particularly successful. With sports cars/prototypes they were for a long time quite content to be a giant killer instead of competing in the top class. This changed with the 917. Since then they have continued to race but not consistently in the top class of prototypes or F1.

    Jeff
     
  6. tongascrew

    tongascrew F1 Rookie

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    One thing that no other contender from any country can claim is that from 1929 until today in international motor racing no other name has so consistently been the mark that must be bettered to be champion.Others come and go but the name of Ferrari has always been there. tongascrew
     
  7. intrepidcva11

    intrepidcva11 F1 Rookie
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    #8232 intrepidcva11, Jan 8, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2014
    Perfectly correct, Jeff. Not to quibble, but while Ferraris were winning sports car races in the late 1940s and through the 50's and 60's, their international name was truly made in F1: in 1951, the first year of the new Formula 1, Ferrari won three races and Alfa Romeo four to win the first F1 championship. Ferrari followed by winning every F1 race in 1952 and 1953 except the '53 Italian GP. Even in Mercedes' two championship seasons Ferrari won two races in 1954 and one in 1955. And of course the championships in '56, '58 and '60.

    As you point out, Porsche's F1 effort was very short-lived. In fact in the first F1 race I ever attended, the 1960 Italian GP, Porsche entered two 1 1/2 liter F2 monoposti. Ah memories!
     
  8. Jeff Kennedy

    Jeff Kennedy F1 Rookie
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    I would point to the LeMans win of 1949 by a company that was just in business as arguably more important combined with the wins in the MM and the Targa Florio all occurring prior to the 1951 F1 campaign. The original supercharged Columbo engine F1 was not a success at all. It was the unsupercharged Lampredi that became competitive. 1952 and 1953 were run with what had been the F2 formula. Unlike now, the drivers ran in all the series so Ferrari's best were in F1 and the sports car races.

    Jeff
     
  9. F1tommy

    F1tommy F1 Veteran
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    The first Championship year winner was G. Farina in 1950 driving an Alfa. The Ferrari 375 was a success until being banned for the smaller F2 type cars in 1952. It won several races against Alfa Romeo mainly due to the Alfa's being thristy and requiring more fuel stops in 1951.
     
  10. stratos

    stratos Formula Junior

    Dec 9, 2003
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    Switzerland
    Is this really the place for such a debate.
    I would suggest opening a thread to discuss such matters and leave this one to its purpose, publishing historic pictures.
     
  11. intrepidcva11

    intrepidcva11 F1 Rookie
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    yes!
     
  12. model builder

    model builder Formula Junior

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    I don't know what Muller drove in 1971 but he didn't have the 512M until 1974. Ferrari didn't have many Can Am cars in 1971 other than the 712 and the very modified 612 that Adams drove but had a 512 sized motor. Maybe a 312 drove in the series but I don't know for sure. I have several Cam Am specific books that might have that info in it. I'll see what I can find.
     
  13. Group44registry

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    #8238 Group44registry, Jan 9, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  14. GIOTTO

    GIOTTO F1 Rookie
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    Dec 30, 2006
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    There is a photo in Jess Pourret's book "Ferrari 250GT compétition" page 85 with the same car at Marlboro with race n° 02.
     
  15. Sire Bruno de Losckley

    Aug 1, 2006
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    Just:

    1-oct-1961: Marlboro - Maryland
    1er Allan R. Wylie 250 GT California n°.02 "1085GT"
     
  16. Group44registry

    Jul 18, 2011
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    All-

    Great model of 1085GT! Anyone know if this is available in kit form, preferably 1/43?

    Would anyone out there have other pics of 1085GT in Nassau for the Speed Weeks, I know my Dad and Alan Wyllie went down there, either 1961 or 1962.

    Thanks!
    Rick
     
  17. tongascrew

    tongascrew F1 Rookie

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    Those 158/159 Alfas were originally designed and built at Scuderia Ferrari in the late 1930s and Ramponi had a big hand in this. Later in the late 1940s when Ferrari was having teething problems with the high end rev limits with the V12s Ramponi came thru again this time as a representative of Tony Vandervell's Thinwall Bearing Co with bearings that did much to solve the problem. And the rest is history.tongascrew
     
  18. GermanDino

    GermanDino F1 Rookie
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    #8243 GermanDino, Jan 9, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hello Tom,
    this picture was taken at the New York Int. Auto Show 5th until 13th of April 1969, shortly after the race at Sebring...
    I´m still desperately looking for picture of the back of the car, taken at Sebring raceday or N.Y. Auto Show in 1969....
    Regards Matthias
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  19. bigodino

    bigodino F1 World Champ
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    #8244 bigodino, Jan 9, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  20. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Rookie
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    s/n 024 in 70s...
     
  21. bigodino

    bigodino F1 World Champ
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    Thanks Cyril! I didn't have a picture of 024 yet in my files.
     
  22. macca

    macca Formula Junior

    Dec 3, 2003
    674
    ...and 0854 when Antony Bamford had it. It looks to be at Brands Hatch.

    Paul M
     
  23. F1tommy

    F1tommy F1 Veteran
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    Hi Mattias,

    I did not find any rear shots if I remember correctly. I will recheck my picure files.

    Tom
     
  24. F1tommy

    F1tommy F1 Veteran
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    The truth of the matter is the same people built all these early Italian racecars:)

    I got my head bit off by someone last time I said that, but it is true(other than Ricart who Ferrari hated since he was dumped by Alfa for him, and he was Spanish not Italian). I wonder what would have happened if Ferrari had hired Ricart after the war. I bet it would have put Ferrari 5 years ahead technically!!
     
  25. Jeff Kennedy

    Jeff Kennedy F1 Rookie
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    Were the 158/159 Alfas considered Jano designs?

    Jeff
     

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