More Old Photos

Don't you mean 1950-51 Grand Prix? 1952 (and 1953) was run under F2 Championship rules.

 

Sorry. I should have phrased it better. There were formula Libre races in 1952 and even 1953 where the 375s competed.
Cheers, Allan

 

Yes, I agree. Somethings may never be known unless Ferrari shed some light on the subject. They may not even know. But I believe it is possible to find out more from the online photos.

By the way, John Starkey has written a book on the early Ferrari F1and F2 cars, to be on sale in May.
Cheers, Allan

 

100% where I was going with it mate! Numbers 1-5 at least were all used and re-used to suit carnet and what was sold often didn't match its form when last raced, clearly some or all cars were built up to suit orders received!

 

Hello Timothy, I thought I would comment on your summary of the Ferrari 375 history.

I've spent quite a bit of time researching online photos and books and I think, for the most part, have an accurate race history of each of the 375s in 1950 and 1951. I believe six cars were used by the works team and these can be identified in photos by differences in the number of louvres on the engine covers and lower chassis panel and the position of screws fixing the cockpit/scuttle to the chassis. The cars had few serious accidents so body panels largely remained the same throughout the two seasons. Although nose sections were replaced more often, 375-2 had at least four.
There are three pieces of information that also help clarify the history of each car.
Ferrari have said that chassis number 5 was the car Ascari debuted at the 1951 Italian GP.
In Motorsport magazine's report of the 1951 British GP, W. Boddy wrote that Ferrari used chassis 2 for Gonzalez, 3 for Villoresi and 4 for Ascari. However I'm sure Villoresi had 4 and Ascari 3. I would think Boddy got this information from the Ferrari team.
Although I have not seen it, I believe one of the 1951 Autocourse periodicals has an account of the Belgian GP with chassis 1,3 and 4 being raced by Ferrari. Note there is no mention of chassis 5 at either of these two races.
With this information it is possible to identify the 375s at each race.

375-1. First raced at 1950 Italian GP with Serafini. It seemed to disappear from the record before the Swiss GP. But that wasn't the case. The 12plug engine was replaced with a 24 for the Swiss GP and driven by Taruffi. It continued to race until the Spanish GP. It was possibly modified into the Indy car no3, the Mauro car.

375-2. I believe the chassis for this car was first used by Villoresi at the 1950 Swiss GP. Photos of the car show that the engine cover and lower chassis panels were still on the car at the 1951 Italian GP where it was driven by Landi. After the Swiss GP it was driven by Ascari at the GP des Nations in Geneva and the Italian GP and by Serafini at the Penya Rhin GP. It, of course, won the 1951 British and German GP. I don't know what happened to it after 1951.

375-3. I'm not 100% sure but I think this car first appeared at the 1950 GP des Nations in Geneva, driven and crashed by Villoresi. It must have been rebuilt and reappeared in Barcelona at the 1950 Penya Rhin GP, driven by Taruffi, with a 340 engine. It was re-engined with a 24 plug for the 1951 San Remo GP and last appeared at the 1951 Italian GP, driven by Taruffi. It's thought this car became the Indy car 4, the Keck car.

375-4. This is the car that first appeared at the 1951 Belgian GP, not 375-5. Driven by Villoresi. I don't know what happened with this car after 1951

375-5. First raced at the 1951 Italian GP by Ascari and winning. Sold to Chico Landi in 1952 and ending up with B Ecclestone.

375-6. First raced at the 1951 Italian GP by Villoresi, finished fourth. Sold to Rosier in 1952, then to New Zealand and finally to G. Perfetti.

I'm less sure about the remaining four 375s.
375-7. Possibly the car first raced by Villoresi at the 1952 Gran Premio de Valentino in Turin. A short wheelbase Grand Prix car built for the 1952 4.5 litre formula which never happened. May have become 0388 and sold to the Chinettis.

375-8. Possibly a new Indy car for Ascari at the 1952 Indianapolis 500. Returned to Italy, shortened and raced by Ascari at the 1953 Buenos Aires City GP and Albi GP. Sold in South America in 1958? as 0566. Now with the Van der Lofs?

375-9. Possibly the Grant Piston Indy car. It was originally built for Farina to drive at Indy.

375-10. The fourth Thinwall Special.

Cheers, Allan

 

Chassis and engine numbers should not be confused.
Perfetti has chassis 2 with engine 6.
Ex Roycroft, ex Bain (traded it for a new F40), via Adrian Hamilton to Perfetti in 1991.

Marcel Massini

 

0388 was a new chassis and given a factory certificate of origin on 24 February 1954.
Here's the warranty card issued 21 January 1954 (7 months warranty).
Second pic shows the factory restoration book about 0388.

PS: I suggest to create a totally separate thread in the vintage section, covering the 375 single seaters (F1 and Indy, etc.).

Marcel Massini

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Here's the Grant Piston Ring Special ex Johnny Parsons (Indy #6), owned by Evert Louwman.

Marcel Massini

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Here's the ex Howard Keck Special (Indy #38), tag says 4 but there's been another tag underneath.......

Marcel Massini

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There are already the "Ferrari Gran Turismo thread" and "Ferrari Sports Cars Thread"; a separate thread for monopostos will fit perfectly here.

 

Yes, But I believe Ferrari may have changed chassis numbers on the two new cars at the 1951 Italian GP in order to win prize money offered by the autoclub of Milan for new cars.
If Ascari's car was chassis 5 it's likely Villoresi's was originally 6.
Cheers, Allan

 

71 years ago today.

 

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Looking forward to this book. I do not expect that all mysteries will be solved, but hopefully it is a good reflection of current wisdom.

Besides that, after a whole series of outrageously priced Ferrari books, this one is refreshingly wallet friendly.

 

Rome, 1960. A snapshot of everyday life, captured by Willy Rizzo, renowned photographer and designer known for documenting the golden age of Italian glamour.
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Repost.
See posts 12192 and 12196 of 17 January 2024.

And here from 23 August 2022:

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/250-spider-from-rome-targa-403xxx.664155/#post-148703917

1815 GT.

Marcel Massini

 

I have always had 0482 being 500 F2 chassis '3' before ending up with Whitehead....but where has '2' come from?

 

Post 12192 there nothing, no information, no copyright...
here you have the COMPLETE information.

 

I always assumed the 500F2 would have remained the same chassis # when re-engined to 625F1 form but according to plenty of experts and at least one car, they were renumbered. A Cavallino magazine article went into great detail about a 375 Indy being restored and showed it had been 375F1 #375-4 and became 375 Indy #3. I understand #0482 was 500F2 #500-3 and then 625F1 #625-2.....

 

Sorry for the late reply:
I have this GTO with race Nr. 193 as S/N 3705 GT at the Mitholz - Kandersteg hillclimb, 12.09.1965 with Cox Kocher

best wishes,
BjörnS

 

Gelles 0660 MDTR would be my guess….

 

0660 MDTR:
One of three TRCs with a scoop over the oil tank.
(the other two are chassis 0658 MDTR and 0668 MDTR).
William and John Gelles had it from 1972 until June 1985.

Marcel Massini