How can you get some more power from a standard 512BB engine?
From watching many older Ferraris run on a chassis dyno, I would say the most important thing to do is get your car dyno'd, with an exhaust analysis at the same time. Many times you will find that your car is not even making stock horsepower, because of problems with ignition, distributors not advancing, fuel injectors not optimal, carbs needing rebuilding, etc. BTW, you engine is not a V12 it is a flat 12.
Tate Casey (Carobu) has a comp spec BB, or at least had one. $80,000 was the ask I think. 460 BHP. Given that equates to about 90 BHP/L, my guess is there is room for further improvement. As with most of these things it is time and money to flow the heads, dial in some lumpy cams etc. Anyway, enough of a sermon. Three options: - Casey at Carobu - Wayne Obry (reportedly was getting 420 BHP from a 12 cyl 250 SWB motor = 140 bhp/L; 2 valve) - A custom race engine building shop. As a reference, I talked to Barry at PHP. He quoted me dyno results of 137bhp/L from a 4v 308. Philip
From QV500: "Always referred to as a Flat-12 over-square Boxer, the dimensions of these engines are actually more like those of a V-banked engine with an angle of 180°."
Hi......... Consider the amount of horsepower and torque generated by the BB/LM engines from the factory. What about the twin-turbo Boxer(s), such as the one owned by Ron Tonkin ?? Would you want an engine more fragile than a Le Mans endurance engine in your Boxer ?? Think that the drivetrains of the BB/LMs were "stock", unless there were metallurgical changes to improve the reliability of components. Did only one BB/LM cross the finish line at Le Mans ?? Frank.........23005 www.masiarz.net/bb_resource
Frank, with all the info on Boxers out there why hasn't your website been updated in such a long time? And, what happened to the owner info that was once published on your site?
I have a friend with a 180-degree V12 boxer that has twin turbos by Norwood. This was done 7 years ago and he had no transaxle problems in the three years before selling it. Don't know where it is now.
define reliability and lifespan... I got 196hp/l from that same 308 4V engine... it lasted a whole 1500 miles...
Franck Nums quoted are for NA, not forced induction. Steve, Race motor. Likely good for a season. For street, 110/L would be a more realistic goal. Frank M, IMO, Stresses from endurance races like Le Mans are so different from road use a comparison has no merit. Philip
I guess the question to ask is how much power you want, and how do you want it? Recall that back in the early days, Ferrari was using blowers. He moved away from them and didnt supercharge again until the late 70's. What I feel I would do, if I were lucky enough to own a Boxer that was injected, would be to remove the CSI injection and go back to Webers. I think that alone, on a 5 liter engine would be quite a boost in performance. Secondly, you could change cams, but I do not know the compression ratio so wouldnt know where to start. But I would imagine some 365 BB cams may work, and I assume there are euro versions of those, or at least the numbers to use to grind your own. But I do not know if 365 cams will fit a 5 liter motor. But at least then, with carbs and cams, you could have good performance with good low speed driveability. I would imagine at around 425 to 450 Hp it would be a very interesting motor. At 500 Hp I think it would become hard and lose its fun factor.
It would be more prudent to simply sell the injected car and buy a carb Boxer, than to go through all of the expense and effort to convert it over. Plus, the resale value on a converted BBi would be pretty bad. I think that a mildly boosted turbocharger system on an injected 512 would be the way to go for more power and the car could easily be converted back to stock, if desired.
Hi.......... Only mentioned the BB/LM engines as examples of the factory's choices for states of tune compatible with longevity, not "legal" use on the street. Not clear for what purpose tomgt wants more power from his Boxer engine. Zero-to-sixty miles per hour in 5.5 seconds not quick enough for him, or does he want more "top end" ?? As the old saying goes......"How fast do you want to go and how much money are you willing to spend". Of course, a Boxer with more power would certainly need better brakes too. And better tires.......and ?! Frank...........23005 www.masiarz.net/bb_resource
Are you saying that a turbocharged 512BBi, would be worth more, than a carburetted 512BBi? I guess I see no difference as long as both cars are being altered away from a stock setup. The only caveat is that the carb setup is closer to how Mr. Ferrari would have dealt with the issue. Better throttle response, better low end torque, better tractability through the rev band, better overall driveability, while the turbo just gives a good top end surge. No?
No.... I was just trying say that if someone wanted more power out of a 512BBi, it would probably be better to just turbocharge it, rather than converting it to Webers. If someone wants Webers, they should just buy a 512BB, instead of converting an injected Boxer.
The BBLM cars used Lucas fuel injection. But, I do not know if that would be cost effective to convert a BB512i to that Lucas system. And krowbar, while the carbs may give you a little more top end, the BB512i has better low end torque, tractability and drivablity that either the BB512 or 365GT4/BB. In fact that is the main reason I chose the BB512i over the BB512.
As of a few years ago, there were still several crate LM spec motors floating around. I know that Sicard either had a customer or knew of a street car with an LM motor. I should have bought it back in 1998 when it was offered to me...
