More strange electrical issues | FerrariChat

More strange electrical issues

Discussion in '206/246' started by mar3kl, Dec 9, 2021.

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  1. mar3kl

    mar3kl Formula Junior

    Nov 17, 2011
    470
    Silicon Valley
    Full Name:
    Mark
    What started out as an innocent question about an extra fuse box relay has morphed into more questions. I now understand that my (Euro 06236) car is pre-wired for A/C despite not having it installed, and that the fuse panel reflects this pre-wiring. The car has an extra fan relay that can be activated by the A/C system, as well as other wiring that now makes sense given my original fuse labels. The labels are different from the current repro labels. And of course the wiring diagrams I've been able to find reflect none of these changes.

    My latest questions arise from my car having a non-stock Bosch alternator, I think from a 308. It has a built-in regulator (I still have a correct Euro-style black regulator on the fuse panel, but it's not connected to anything). The alternator exciter wire (white wire in second from left fuse position below) is connected through the fuse directly to the accessory terminal of the ignition switch, which supplies 12 volts when the ignition key is in position 1. The left two fuse positions both get the same accessory-position power. The left-most orange wire is for A/C and indeed as you can see below my original label says "condizionatore" in that position, although the English translation "heater" is a little misleading.

    The wiring at the 5th-from-left "regulator" position is actually vent fans (blue wire) and stop light (red wire). So going by my original label, the exciter wire and the vent/stop wire positions are swapped and everything else is correct. And normally the exciter wire would be connected to the external regulator output, and its red B+ wire would be connected to the 12 volts on the fuse panel.

    I innocently thought what can be the harm in swapping them back? Then everything matches my original label. Great idea, let's do it! I then confirmed the alternator exciter wire was getting 12 volts with the ignition key in position 1, and the brake lights and vent fans were getting 12 volts in position 2 (the middle fuse positions all get power in position 2). I started the car, and everything seemed happy. Alternator is charging, and my brake lights and vent fans work. I then turned the ignition switch to position 0 to stop the car and things got weird. The tach needle started bouncing around and the car kept running. Not dieseling, just running normally.

    I disconnected the ignition at the Marelli box and killed the motor. I then swapped the wires back, started the car again, and was able to stop it normally.

    So what the hell? I've thought about it a lot and can't understand what is going on. How can the alternator exciter wire affect the power to the ignition box when the key has switched that power off? Why does the exciter wire affect the ignition box when wired to the ignition terminal, but not when wired to the accessory terminal? And why does the original regulator setup not suffer from this weird behavior?

    I'm very confused at the moment, so if anyone can explain what's going on, I'm all ears.
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  2. mar3kl

    mar3kl Formula Junior

    Nov 17, 2011
    470
    Silicon Valley
    Full Name:
    Mark
    Ugh - what I meant was after the ill fated swap, the alternator exciter wire was getting 12 volts with the key in position 2, and the brakes and fans were getting 12 volts in position 1, just like you'd expect. Sorry for the confusion.
     
  3. dgt

    dgt Formula 3
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jan 14, 2011
    1,292
    Northeast, USA & Oz
    Full Name:
    Andrew
    #3 dgt, Dec 11, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2021
    I'll have a shot but my experience is with the earlier cars so might be wrong on this one too.. :).
    Usually alternators with built in regs have a sense wire which runs to the battery, this is a reference for alternator output to produce 14.7V or whatever output the regulator is set to appears at the battery. So I don't think this is an exciter wire.
    Changing the wiring created a secondary path for power bypassing the switch, maybe the alt went full output as the sense wire dropped voltage. not sure.

    Do you know the model of alt? Need to confirm what the white wire is now.

    cheers Andrew

    update: did a quick search, looks like the 308 alt just has a warning lamp wire and no sense wire... so maybe the white wire is connected to that. The warning light should run through a globe to the ignition switch. I suppose it's 12V at the alt when running so the lamp doesn't come on and drops to ground otherwise. In the absence of a globe I wonder if the car is being powered through the warning light wire when off?
    Maybe Rob or someone with 308 experience can chime in.
     
  4. jselevan

    jselevan Formula 3

    Nov 2, 2003
    1,873
    My experience is with earlier cars as well, and all of my (3) Dinos have had the regulator under the dash (red box). Are you certain that the black box on your fuse panel is, indeed, a charging regulator? By the way, charging voltage should be 13.8 volts (standard for all 12-volt lead-acid batteries).

    Jim S.
     
  5. mar3kl

    mar3kl Formula Junior

    Nov 17, 2011
    470
    Silicon Valley
    Full Name:
    Mark
    Only US cars had the red regulator under the dash. Euro cars had the black regulator in the fuse panel.
     

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