I find this terribly disturbing. WITHOUT teams orders F1 does look like wrestling: fake fights, "sportsmen" pretending... WITH team orders you see racing as it always has been, even if modern fans don´t like it: a team sport.
Your point is a good one. If the crowd demands its pound of flesh from Ferrari and a fall guy is needed, I say throw Massa under the bus.
It's a stupid rule, the FIA should come to their senses, face reality and throw the rule out the window once and for all.
You cruel bastrd... Next you'll be throwing cats in waste bins .. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKmAgJEQvIc
Hey! That's me being flexible I'll go back to my original statement that Max and the rest of the hypocrites can go pound sand. Better? BTW It was kittens and shredders
It's not a stupid rule at all, it's a requirement. If team orders were allowed, one driver would be slated to race and the other just to block.
Thought you'd had enough of this subject.. Its all about the spirit of the rules . Making fun of them there rules ends up with this issues like this, and then rule changes for better or worse, take ya pick.
Any sentient observer (even many F-Chatters ) can see that the rule is irrational and unenforceable and so needs revoking. We can discuss the philosophy as to which is the greater sin, an unjust law or the obeying of same if you like. Personally I maintain that for the law to be respected it must be rational.
The only person the FIA need to talk to is Massa. They have to ask him if there was a previous agreement between the drivers and the team-- an agreement where either driver would have to move over when given a signal. If there was, then a rule was broken. If, ultimately, the team left the decision up to the drivers... well, the drivers can do whatever they want. If Massa decided to let Alonso by because he believed it to be the best thing for the team, he didn't break any rules.
Yes I agree its a unenforcable rule, and to be quite frank a band aid plaster for the farce MS made with Rubens. However rational and F1, you gotta be kidding me..
The trouble with that is, do you think anyone in there right mind would believe it. But a fair point all the same.
The WMSC needs to question Massa, Smeadly, Alonso & Domenicali. In effect they need to dare them to lie to them and if they do I would think a ban from FIA sanctioned events for a period of time would be one of the many options on the table. It would be very similar to what happened to Flavio.
Respecting the spirit of the rule is not the same as not respecting the rule while pretending that you´re doing so. The late is adding insult to injury and is what all the teams are doing right now.
We can go round in circles with this, or we can accept the fact that making a mockery of a vague and silly unenforcable rule has this caused problem. One question: If Ferrari had instigated there team orders like Mclaren did, when JB was duking it out with Hamilton, do you think this thread and others like it would exist. I know it wouldn't.
Maybe yes, maybe no. In any case we's be beating some other dead horse waiting for the real racing to start
I don't think the rule is unenforceable. Unenforceable rules would be ones that can't be enforced without breaking other rules - like banning abortion except in cases where the woman had been using birth control. It would be illegal to require everyone to comply with the latter, so they have no way to enforce the former. But in this case, the rule is enforceable. It may be difficult to enforce it equally, but the FIA is a private organization and the teams agreed to operate under the rules structure, so I am not sure why they feel they don't have to abide by the rules. Most fans do not want team orders. I fail to see why the majority is wrong - the sport exists to cater to their interests. Shockingly, on this one, I agree with Mosley. So do the teams - most teams have come out and said they are not in favor of team orders. If rules do not need to be followed if a team feels they are silly, then why have rules at all. One could argue the rule is stupid and should be abolished. We could argue the same about many rules. I'm sure most of us speed and don't think twice about it. We've all gotten tickets too, I'm sure. But if you speed and cause a crash, you're in a world of ****, despite the fact that most of us speed every day. Teams may show preference for one driver over another - I'm sure that happens on occasion. But in this case, the rule violation was blatant and obvious. The punishment should befit the transgression, which was an obvious violation of a stated rule. I think constructors points loss would be a minimum.
A rule can't be enforced if a violation can not be identified. Even in the case in point it isn't as obvious as it might seem. All the evidence is inferential. We all "know" what the radio transmissions really meant but I don't know that alone meets any standard of evidence in a credible court or tribunal. In the majority of instances of team orders we don't even have this level of documentation. At best we infer the existence of orders from the results observed. Even the FIA has found itself unable to prosecute on such "evidence". As far as the other teams' positions, at best they're taking the opportunity to hit Ferrari safe in the knowledge that it won't impinge on their ability to violate the same rule in the future. Ambiguous, unenforceable rules engender disrespect for the authority that generated them. It is a primary responsibility for any governing body to act in a way that fosters its legitimacy. Once again the FIA has failed miserably in this respect. They have a chance to regain some degree of legitimacy in their ruling. Let's hope they don't pander to the crowd or exact revenge instead.
