MOSLEY: MCL DRIVERS SHOULD LOSE POINTS TOO!

Mosley wanted drivers to lose points
Monday, 17, September, 2007, 13:51


Lewis Hamilton and Fernando Alonso would have been thrown out of the drivers’ world championship if Max Mosley’s view had prevailed in the ‘spygate’ ruling, the FIA president revealed on Sunday.

The governing body’s World Council instead contented itself with disqualifying McLaren from the constructors’ title race and levying the largest fine in sporting history.

Mosley says he advocated extending the punishment to the drivers, but was in a minority on the WMSC panel.

“I would have taken all the points away from Hamilton and Alonso on the grounds that there is a suspicion they had an advantage that they should not have had,” Mosley explained.

“There was a big debate in the World Council about whether all the points should go – teams and drivers.

“A majority thought they should keep their points, [but] about five – mostly lawyers – thought all the points should go.

“They argued, how can you give the world champion’s cup to someone who may have had an unfair advantage over other drivers?

“They have effectively cheated.

“But the other side of it was, here is this brilliant world championship between Hamilton and Alonso.

“The sporting people were saying, ‘If you interfere with that, you are spoiling a very good championship. It wasn’t the drivers’ fault.’

“But there again, it never is.

“Very often, for example, a car will be disqualified because it is a kilo underweight, which will probably make no difference at all.

“But you have to have this principle.

“It’s the same as anywhere else: If you’re outside of the rules, you are not in the game.”

Mosley added that, should Hamilton or Alonso win the title, a question mark would forever hang over their achievement.

Asked whether he was disappointed by the verdict, he said: “Slightly. I feel that when people look back in 10 to 15 years’ time and when all of the emotions have gone, they will say, ‘Hang on a minute, we just don’t know what would have happened. Would Raikkonen or Massa have won it had it not been for this information?’

“So there will always be a question mark over it – there has to be, because nobody knows how big an advantage they had from that.

“But that they had an advantage is almost beyond dispute.”

The FIA president ventured that Hamilton, who has a real chance of clinching the title in his rookie season, would “probably feel more comfortable if he wins a subsequent championship, which I am sure he will, without any of these question marks”.

Hamilton took umbrage at the suggestion that a title victory by one of the McLaren drivers would be tainted, insisting he would be a worthy winner.

“I don’t have anything to say to or about Max Mosley,” he said.

“We’ve all worked hard this year and the way I feel is that the team has done absolutely nothing wrong and neither have I.

“I don’t see why people should say that if I win, it’s a tainted championship.”

END OF ITV ARTICLE

What is the purpose of this statement? What good can it do now? Is it a threat to Dennis if he doesn't accept the penalty that more punishment is in store for his drivers?

 

it will be a good day for F1 when Mad Max and Bernie leave it.........!!

 

he's right they should lose points. Look at the ruling it makes no sense, except for the fact that they don't want to ruin a very good title fight betwen 3 excellent drivers.

I understand both viewpoints but if you are going to be fair and unbiased it makes sense the driver's lose points too.

 

The current ruling does not make sense, so obviously I think Mosley is right.

If McLaren benefited from the Ferrari information, then so did their drivers, and both should have points deducted.

If the McLaren drivers did not benefit from the Ferrari information, then neither did McLaren, and both should get to keep their points, and a fine should be the only punishment.

Based on the evidence, it seems very clear to me that McLaren did benefit from the Ferrari data. This will be the case even if there is no actual Ferrari technology used on the McLaren cars.

All that being said, since Mosley's view was shared by only a minority, I do not think he should have stated his opinion in public...

 

Max Mosley is right, Alonso should lose all the points. After all this is the world drivers championship, and they (at least Alonso) knew of everything from the beggining (the mails change with Pedro de la Rosa).

 

Because whether you knew it or not you had an unfair advantage........... Is LH that stupid not to understand or does he think we are so stupid that we will believe him.

I'm on record here as saying I'm an MB/Mclaren fan, but it's fading fast when I read these types of comments.

What I don't understand is if Mosley thought they should lose all the points.... and others thought they should lose none, why did they not compromise on x pts.?

 

After they kicked out McLiaren...they should have docked the points of BOTH McLiarens drivers to EVEN THEM OUT with the Ferrari drivers...

And then you have a good show, some sort of punishment for the drivers, and the best season finale in history of F1...very Bernish solution...

 

This is all PR BS. The amnesty letter effectively backed the FIA into a well planned political corner.

 

+1

Bernie wants the show to continue, so he didn't want McLaren thrown out of the championship.

Mad Max wanted to hurt Dennis and to make the FIA look good. They did that by coming up with more evidence (at the price of immunity for the drivers) and the 100 million dollar fine.

 

yeap.

It's over now, it is what it is at this point.

 

+2

No love lost with Mad max and Ron

 

+3. And I personally think the penalty should have included WDC points as well as the WCC.

Having said so, if MM could not win the votes to do it behind closed doors, I guess it does make him look a little cheapened (as a voting official) to spew this forth in public.

AND - Having said that, I see no reason to call up his (MMs) personal ancestry as part of this issue. That is about things long past and best forgotten.

After all, I seem to remember Mercedes & BMW building engines for some remarkable aircraft that were not exactly on the Allied side of things during that interval, too - and we have forgiven both of them by now. As well as Ferrari and Porsche, on that same point.

I guess the inevitable "*" will be enough for me when this season is over (not being a believer in Kimi winning all three remaining races).

 

so let's see, the head of the fia thinks the cup would be tainted if handed to alonzo or hamilton. pretty damning.

 

Not quite. According to Todt, if McL appeal the punishment and lose, there is a chance of further penalties, including the deduction of driver's points.

 

They won't appeal. Dennis is no fool and he got bigger fish to fry: Like his survival.

 

That is the best solution I have read yet.

 

+100,000,000

I NOMINATE YOU FOR PRESIDENT. OF WHAT, I DON'T KNOW. BUT, YOU'D BE A GOOD ONE. BRAVO!

 

How about of the FIA?

 

Allowing Max any say in the decision is foolish.
In a real court his opinion would be thrown out as biased.
What would Nascar, IRL, Etc do ? Throw an entire team out ? Ridiculous.
And yet the whining continues.

 

What whining are you talking about?

Have you bothered to read the WMSC's September 13, 2007 decision? The facts show that de la Rosa and Alonso repeatedly begged for, and received, information regarding Ferrari's weight balance, aero dynamics, braking systems, pit strategy, etc. The information was vetted through their chief designer, Michael Coughlan, and then Ron Dennis engaged in a continuing cover-up.


THE WHOLE TEAM IS IMPLICATED, NOT JUST THE DRIVERS.

DAMN STRAIGHT THAT NASCAR, THE IRL, USAC, THE NCAA, AND YOUR LOCAL HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL LEAGUE WOULD HAVE KICKED THE WHOLE FIGGIN TEAM OUT FOR SIMILAR LEVELS OF CHEATING.

 

what i was saying earlier on...i think it really doesn't make sense if they punish the team, Mclaren, then they don't punish the drivers, who were using the same car that belonged to the team that were punished.

i think they should have been for the rest of this season, kicked out of the championship for this season. throwing them a heavy fine means nothing to a team like Mclaren. banning them shows the rest of the paddock that the FIA take this kinda cheating thing seriously, and that money is not the issue here.

 

This is the FIA we're talking about. Money is always the issue.

How much was McLaren going to be paid for the ECU contract next year?

(Free ECUs: worth what you paid for them.)

 

Mad Max is flip-flopping like a fish out of water.

On the one hand, he's claimed that *he* personally upheld the immunity based on his personal promise - in other words, the "I have integrity" argument.

On the other (like in this story), he's claiming that he was personally clamouring for the annulment of driver's points, but was sadly outvoted, the "I am a lone voice of reason in the wilderness" argument.

Come on Max, make up yer mind. Till then, shut yer trap.

 

...thanks for your support fellow chatters but this Ambassador position has my hands full...

but really...how come they didnt thought of that before?

...I just think amnesty had the "superlicense" badge...but points docking will be a win-win thing.

They said they didnt knew the amount of advantage taken?...well then, dont strip them of all, strip them of enough to be even will Ferrari drivers and that creates the first "F1 shootout"...4 races, 4 cars, 4 drivers...one hell of TV promo!

tell me where the ratings will be?...fair with the involved drivers, fair with the Ferrari drivers, fair with the rest of the team drivers...

and McLiaren out of the constructirs points, but he gets to drive his cars so sponsors dont go and burn the McLiaren headquarters...and piss in the pool...

 

A pic I found in Swiss Blick:

Superbest friends....
Image Unavailable, Please Login