When it comes to being "important", I wouldn't include any driver except probably Stewart, and that would be for his off-track activities.
Elton doesn't need to be too 'shady' when he has Laura and Wolff controlling things from pitlane. However, he still finds time to barge people, brake test and generally be a complete ****
But senna is worshipped as a god, a saint, a perfect angel, by all the F1 community and all the journalists, when Schumacher is despised and insulted by the same people. Difference is that senna is dead, so critics are forbidden and he is raised to god status.. whereas schumacher is in vegetative state, which isn't as glamorous as death, so nobody cares and can insult and diffame him without any problem..
I think you are wrong on your comments about MS. He is adored as a God on here and pretty much everywhere NOW in the media, partly exactly because of the situation he is in. I can't stand the guy but I'm trying to hold back, "de mortibus nihil nisi bene" and all that.
Though u have a point there are other reasons too; starting with schumacher's personality... put it this way my dog is more entertaining than shumacher was/is... He just wasn't that glamorous which is a nice to have in f1 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Wrong: I never liked Senna, never liked Schumacher and don't like Hamilton either. They share the same lack of track etiquette. "Birds of a feather flock together!. "
Maybe that is why they were successful...Nice people come second...Nico had to learn it the hard way The times of gentlemen drivers are long gone....
Maybe, but there are still drivers who respect their competitors, and I admire that. Success at all cost never convinced me.
I'll come back to this post a bit late but: So you took a massive dislike to MS for trying to ram Villeneuve off the road at low speed (which was completely wrong of him - Let Me make that clear), but you rave about Senna, despite him smashing into Prost at a much higher speed in Suzuka 1990, in cars that were nowhere near as safe as the '97 cars? Sorry, but if you're going to criticise Schumacher for Jerez '97, and use that to reject his claim to greatness, then by the same logic you have to rule Senna out as well!
I said that later in the thread; the difference between senna and schumacher came down to personality. Schumacher had none and he cheated with benneton in 94. Great driver and i do not think he is not great, never said that; he is one the goat but he wasn't senna and he tarnished his legacy in his comeback. Everyone is entitled to their opinion... When senna passed Brazil shut down for 3days that certainly (his death) help elevate his status . Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
My top 5 would be: 1) Enzo Ferrari: He created the team that everyone else entered F1 to try and beat - And that's still true to this day! 2) Bernie Ecclestone: He took the sport from being a rich man's minority sport, to being one of the biggest, global sports on the planet, making it available to just about anyone to follow. Ecclestone also played a major part in supporting the likes of Jackie Stewart and Sid Watkins to improve the safety and medical facilities at circuits around the World. And behind the scenes, without wishing it to be known publicly, he did a lot to help drivers and teams out when they had problems, often lending out huge sums of money to smaller teams on a "pay me back when you can" basis, and often covering all the medical and travel expenses for injured drivers and their families. 3) Jackie Stewart: He did more than anyone else to improve driver safety and circuit safety, at a time when driver's deaths were seen as simply being something to be accepted from the sport. He had to fight tooth and nail to try to stop the driver deaths, and despite all the many obstacles that were put in his was, he never gave up! There are hundreds of drivers, not only in F1, but in all manner of motorsports who owe their lives to the work that Stewart did. 4) Sid Watkins: In a similar vein to Jackie Stewart, the changes he made to the medical facilities at circuits have saved hundreds of drivers/riders lives at events all around the World. When he arrived in F1, most circuits only had a basic first aid capability, and many a driver either died at track-side, or whilst on their way to hospital, miles away from the circuit. With support from Bernie Ecclestone, by the time he left F1, every F1 circuit had their own mini-hospital medical centre that was to the highest standard possible (and quite often better than the nearest local hospital!), that if required could carry out emergency operations. He also helped push for all F1 circuits to have a medical helicopter on standby, to air-lift injured drivers to hospitals, saving valuable minutes in travelling time that could be the difference between a driver surviving or not. On top of that, the lessons he learnt from motorsport accidents were passed on to other doctors involved with other sports, and to doctors who dealt with ordinary, everyday road accidents, resulting in tens of thousands of people surviving accidents that they would have previously died from. 5) Colin Chapman: He was the first engineer/designer to really think outside of the box. He read and reinterpreted the rules, and pushed the boundaries of what was possible. He was the first to truly understand the importance of car aerodynamics and make use of the air moving over and around the car. Colin Chapman was the man who changed F1 design forever, and inspired just about ever modern day F1 designer/engineer, either knowingly, or unknowingly. It's all very well naming certain drivers over the various periods in F1 history as being important to the sport, but the reality is, the difference they really made to the sport pales into insignificance when compared to the difference made by the 5 in the list above!
Ayrton Senna was the originator of the "Win at all cost" attitude that Schumacher took to the nth degree - And whilst both of them showed a genius behind the wheel, neither of them are worthy of the G.O.A.T title, because neither of them raced "The right way", every time. True greats don't need to cheat in order to win, and both Senna and Schumacher were guilty of cheating in their time. For the F1 greatest of all time it's between Fangio and Jim Clark, but for the greatest Grand Prix driver of all time it's between Fangio, Jim Clark and Tazio Nuvolari - tough call. One thing's for certain, none of those three drivers needed to cheat to win a race! As for Brazil "shutting down for three days" after Senna's death, the Country didn't "shut down", the Brazilian Government declared three days of official National mourning - Argentina did the same for Fangio after he died in '95.
Well the country did shut down its called 3 days of grievance. I think our differences might be due to our age, i would think u are from an older era than mine. As far as Senna as i previously states what matters is its peers judgement and they all pretty much agree he is the best they ever seen. We can agree to disagree but i never seen anything like him. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Should also add that fangio considered senna his spiritual son and they hid from him his death because they thought he could not handle it. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
At the end of this thread I come away with the sense that no single list of five anything will ever be right. I agree (not in any order) that Bernie and Jackie Stewart and Chapman and Enzo would be impossible to leave off any list for all the reasons given here. And there were and are many great engineers and designers and team owners and drivers who also brought/bring something special to the sport. And each was/is only a man for his time. I can't think of a single driver who didn't make at least one suspect move on an opponent. And defending your position and taking the line...even ruthlessly...is a natural part of racing. But we all have our favorites and that is what colors any list. So I'll put forth who the single greatest person in F1 was and still is...Enzo Ferrari. His passion for the sport, his cars, his name has been what every other car maker and driver has been measured against. And still is. Even in a losing season...when others have dropped out...the Ferrari team and name has continued to fight and to be the big draw to spectators around the world. Yes others have made great contributions to the sport in terms of money and design and business and driving skills. But they did so standing on the shoulders of Enzo Ferrari. I'm not even sure if the sport would still be around without his name and the dreams...the cars...that he inspired.
What about Stewart at the Nurburgring in 68? He finished in first place 7 minutes ahead of 2nd place!!! 7 minutes!!! Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat.com mobile app
exactly - it was along lap, no safety, and his average speed was over 115MPH... in the rain & fog.... no lights. that makes Senna at Donnington seem like childs play. Not diminishing Senna - but he's the easy answer. Fangio, Clark, Stewart, Lauda, Prost ... these guys were just as fast and competitive as Senna & Schumacher. I would argue even more brave given the cars they raced and the danger they faced ... Clark paid the price. All the rest survived.