Most Likely Super Enzo Predictions

good read. i cant wait for their next "supercar'

 

I'm no expert in super cars, but I doubt you'll be seeing speeds of 250 MPH with environmental restrictions. They should make the next super ferrari look like the F-X. Who cares about top speeds and zero to 60 times?

 

I do.

 

Yea me too. I don't really care for emissions b.s. either. It's all a ploy for the government to get more money.

 

Given the HP wars of late, I suspect Ferrari will only increase the HP slightly, to say the 730 range, with perhaps 500 lbs of TQ. Ferrari seem to enjoy doing more with less, witness the 430 with only 483HP and 353 or TQ, versus the Gallardo's and Ford GT's 500 each.

Considering the competitive environment for hypercars is strong- with the new Zonda flaunting 700 or so HP, the next Lamborghini will certainly have at least 700, who knows what MB will do (perhaps with Mclaren) but it will be big, and Porsche certainly won't be left out of the race, the Saleen already has 750 and 850 HP cars- Ferrari will do even more of what it has always done. It will separate itself from everyone else.

Thus, with the next super Ferrari, I anticipate an even closer connection with Formula One, much more so than with the F50: more manettino technology, lighter weight or perhaps the same weight as the Enzo with more power, more compact engine, 10,000-12,000 RPMs, stickier tires, even better CC brakes, and other significant evolutions along this line, especially when the F1 engine switches to a V8. Obviously, straight-line performance will improve: 0-60 in 3.0 flat, 1/4 mile in 8.0 or so, and the very important 0-100-0 in a second or so less than the Enzo.

These evolutions will of course trickle down directly to the volume models.

In short, Ferrari will do what only they can do, not by HP or TQ, but by racing connection and style. Anyone can make a fast straight line car but to put all the pieces together into a seamless whole is a very, very different assignment.

The Enzo raised the bar incredibly high without interest in top speed. The F60 or whatever they choose to name it, will do the same.

It will be grand. I look forward to it.



Forza,


Cavallini

 

thanks cavallini, i was thinking most of that myself. i have a feeling they will build a car that will easily kick any car's @$$ in a sprint or anything else without aiming for that goal. if Ferrari wanted to have the fastest, most powerful car out there, they would have done it ages ago.

 

i would rather have a car with awesome acceleration than awesome top speed. even on the autobahn, there's rarely a chance to get going 200+ because it's getting crowded. i like being thrown back into the seat and having my organs squeezed into themselves rather than being bumped along the road at rediculous speed. i would like a mid 3-second 0-60, and a top speed of 200+ seems to be neccesary to garnish a car as a "supercar". I'm really looking forward to this.

 

I was (still am) hoping that Ferrari would build the ''Super Enzo'' in time to beat the Bugatti in the 400km/h race. That would really make them look incompetent after so many years of development.

 

Cavallini,

I like your thinking. Sounds good!

 

Top speed is the automotive equivalent of dick measuring. Where are you ever going to do 200+ mph? Rent out an airstrip? C'mon.

The next Ferrari shouldn't do more than 175 mph, but demonstrate unprecedented acceleration, nimbleness, and braking characteristics. "The power of the Enzo with the handling of the Elise" should be Ferraris new goal.

 

I understand that alot of people wont bring their cars to top speed, but I would still like to see some numbers. Just for the "HAHHAHA, I I have the fastest car on the road" factor. When you see the fastest car in the world, you will be overcome with awe even though you probably wont see it in action. Plus it would be funny for Bugatti, right after years of developement and surmounting tons of problems, for their car just to get blown out of the water by a faster Super Ferrari. I would like to see Quarter Mile in the low 8's or 7's, go down to the track and amaze all the hicks with their old hotrods, that have tire diamter the size of Russi It doesnt have to be the fastest, but more than 175- I mean c'mon........I believe the F1 technology will be even more extreme than the enzo. The Enzo's F1 nose kind of bugged me at first, but, of course, it grew on me. The F50 seems just right, raw power, a pure race car, and sooo beautiful I might add.

 

Thanks gents. If you think about Ferrari's of the past and especially of the recent past and present, they are, in the broadest sense, a predictable beast.

They have never competed in HP wars and races. They have always made the connection between road and track as close as possible. They always try to make a multi-dimensional car, not just a rocket.
Under LDM's leadership and the team he's put together, especially chief engineer Amedeo Felisa, they have achieved these aims more clearly and convincingly than ever.

And as for the next supercar, the writing is clearly on the wall......F1, F1, F1, and more F1! What better way to celebrate and showcase an unheard of six consecutive years of dominance.

And because of the Enzo's stratospheric success, especially in the resale market, I expect the MSRP for the F70 to be around $800K and a production run of 500. That should pad the pockets for any currenct fluctuations.

Wouldn't you pay that for a street legal Formula One car....10,000 to 12,000 screaming RPMs, 3.0 0-60, 8 sec 1/4 mile, F1 manettino and handling, F1 brakes......?

They could charge a million and I would gladly pay it. Of course the resale will hover around $2M.

Forza,


Cavallini


Cavallini

 

That would be funny and it would be an easy way for Ferrari to pad their foreign exchange exposure. The demand is certainly there. I've heard a few rumors and seen a few spy shots of some slightly modified Enzos in Italy.

If I were Ferrari I would do it.



Forza,


Cavallini

 

Cavillini, you are very smart. I think your predictions are very accurate. I think that Ferrari wont build the car i time to compete with bugatti. Look how long it took to develp the Veyron. Unless Ferrari has been secretly building a new supercar. I think the press would have found something about by now.

 

A rev counter maxing out at 12k would be incredible. But, I don't think a 6.5 liter production engine would be able to get anywhere near that. I think they should take a different approach: rather than adding 60 to 80 more hp, and with that, adding 100+ pounds to the car they should take the damn weight off! Even if power increased by only 30 horsepower imagine the acceleration numbers if the car went down to F40 weight. Eight second quarters are pretty much fantasy land; but with 680ish hp and 2700 pound it should come in around low 10s trapping at close to 140. To all the engineers, why with all the use of exotic composites can they not come in BELOW the F40's weight?! Saleen came in with those numbers, there's no reason a company with the huge budget of Ferrari can not.

 

Im a newbie here and I agree with ScreamForMe, Ferrari should get the weight down with only a little bit more horsepower.

 

Scream, I agree, weight is the number one enemy, and its reduction should be the number one goal, not more HPs.

I can only think that global safety and environmental factors force the weight of the car to increase. Recall the extremes to which Porsche went to reduce weight on the Carrera GT and it still weighs more than the Enzo, largely because of safety features.

Having said that, with Ferrari's F1 engineering expertise surely they could shave pounds off the engine and still produce 700HP and 10,000 RPMs. The current F1 engines are 3 or 4 liters producing almost 900HP, but of course very little TQ in comparison, and rev to 19,000 RPMs.

I recall an interview with the chief special project developer and he said that they could have made the 612 with 9,000RPMs but they did not think customers wanted that.

With 720HP and 500lbs of TQ on a car that weights 100 or 200lbs LESS than the Enzo why couldn't they strike the 1/4 mile in the low 8.0s, and still handle like a Formula One car?

Perhaps they should set their own F40 as the weight to beat, as you suggest.

It's the sort of challenge that would completely separate Ferrari from the crowd and it would make a great deal of money, for a long time, on the F70 and on the volume models.


Your thoughts,



Cavallini

 

It *might* pull a 9.9 if you're lucky.

 

That's all? Surely that much power and that little weight could break a 9.0 1/4.

Does anyone know how fast the latest 750HP Saleen does the 1/4, and the Enzo as well?

The lowly 430 and Ford GT do it around 11.0 flat.



Forza,


Cavallini

 

If I recall when the Ferrari F2003 raced the euro fighter on tarmac it only broke 400M in around low 9's which is a basic equivalent to the quarter mile. That was a 1320 lb car on slicks and 800+ hp. Even though the relative torque is quite low compared to a 6 litre V12.

I remember McLaren stating that if they rev'd the F1 roadcar engine to 10,000 rpm they would easily achieve 1,000 hp. However at higher engine speeds the crankshaft damper would start to create some problems. It would be very difficult to construct an engine with street drivability, emissions and reliability without going to alternate materials or an insane cost derivative. With todays tech, I'm sure Ferrari could achieve a similar result.
The Ford GT ran more than 3 mph faster in the qm than the fastest F430 time even with "secret" lc. And this was the slowest Ford GT time I have seen, certainly not the low 11's as it has been tested to.

I have seen video of the Saleen at a dragstrip and it had a fantastic launch. You could hear the tires chirping all the way down the strip however and the car had an alternate wing for downforce. The time is not legible however, but seemed mighty quick. I could hear no turbo or BOV so it could have been the updated model before the Turbos were introduced as the S7TT.

 

Hmmm. Low 10.0s or high 9.0s would seem to be the goal then.

But whatever the 1/4 mile, I think the car will be significantly closer to a street-legal F1 car than has ever been seen.

GroundEffex, thanks for the insight.


Forza,


Cavallini

 

I don't think it could be. 3400 or 3500 pound car can't defy physics and handle, brake, or do anything like an F1 car can. It wouldn't even be close.

Out of curiosity, I'd like to see an Enzo torn down piece by piece. Do the same to let's say, an F40. Steel body, tube frame versus carbon tub, CF body panels. How in the hell does one gain all that mass despite exotic material use? Surely it can't be because of ABS (how much could a modulator, wheel speed sensors, etc. weigh?), side-impact door beams (again, a CF piece weighs next to nothing), heavier wheels (even 19 inchers have to be lighter than F40's considering magnesium, or forged lightweight aluminum). I'm convinced they're hiding 500+ pounds of ballast in some of these modern "sports cars". There's just no rhyme or reason for exotic little 2 seaters to handily outweigh 4 door sedans.

 

lol!