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Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by AEHaas, Jan 21, 2007.

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  1. gcmerak

    gcmerak Formula 3

    Mar 17, 2008
    1,636
    Engine Bay, Georgia
    Full Name:
    George C.
    Great info Dr. Haas.

    Thanks for posting such a detailed account. I learned a lot of new information. My cars have engines that have the flat tappet/ overhead cam arrangement. These types of engines require the zinc phosphate additive ZDDP, 1200 ppm is the accepted safe level for these pre-1980 engines. Mobil 1 15W-50 is the only one that has a 1200 ppm level ZDDP additive in their oil. The next best in their line up is 0W-40 with a 1000 ppm level of ZDDP. I don't push the engines to the redline, so maybe the manufacturer's recommended 10W-50 [I don't race] could be replaced by the 0W-40 with the lower level of ZDDP, but ultimately yielding a much better result over the long term for engine longevity. Additionally, cold weather [all things being relative of course] in not much of an issue here in Atlanta. I am curious what your thoughts are about the ZDDP levels and going with Mobil 1's 0W-40 oil? Lastly, the lawsuit between Mobil 1 and Castrol yielded an outcome such that the term fully synthetic does not necessarily mean that the oil is a PAO [Poly Alpha Olefin] Group IV base oil. At this point the only oil I trust to be a true fully synthetic oil is Mobil 1.

    Ciao,
    George
     
  2. AEHaas

    AEHaas Formula 3

    May 9, 2003
    1,350
    Osprey, Florida
    Full Name:
    Ali E. Haas
    #27 AEHaas, Nov 2, 2008
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2008
    There are now several oils with no zinc and no boron. Other newer additives not known to the general public are used. If you read the API SM standard you will see that SM oils are backward compatible by definition. If your engine manual states that it takes an SL or SJ or SH or SF... oil then it can use the new SM oils. Not only that but the test results (on old type engines) are more rigorous and passing grades are set at a higher level making these oils better in every way for new or old engines.

    0W-40 Mobil 1 is good for a lot of things these days. And whatever they use or call the base oil it is the results and specs that count. I used Castrol 0W-30 Syntec GC in the Enzo and was going to continue using it but have now changed to Renewable Lubricants Inc. bio-based oils for my high end applications. I have found RLI lubricants to be very fluid at room temperature. This is the temperature/viscosity range I am most concerned about. I look for the thinnest viscosity, in the range of 40 Cs. It is still too thick for normal engine operation but generally least honey-like compared to most other motor oils.

    "This should be a sticky!" It is in the FAQ areas below the SEARCH menu at the top left of the page.

    I am not into pre-warmers of lubes. Just use an oil that is not too thick during start up. Start up wear in automotive applications is not something that occurs during the first few seconds but rather the first 15 to 30 minutes of driving.

    aehaas
     
  3. flirt

    flirt Rookie

    Nov 7, 2008
    1
    ferrari really rox :D
     
  4. I'm gone

    I'm gone Formula Junior

    Feb 5, 2006
    606
    phoenix,az
    Full Name:
    Brian
    When I asked my ferrari dealer for shell helix 5w40 he said shell and quaker state are the same oil and company and said they have quaker state oil. Is this true? did they merge?
     
  5. tazandjan

    tazandjan Two Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Lifetime Rossa

    Jul 19, 2008
    28,626
    Albuquerque, NM
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Brian- Your dealer is blowing smoke. I just had Shell Helix 5W-40 put in my 575M, but based on Dr Haas' recommendation, will change to the alternate oil, Shell Helix 0W-40, next oil change. Be advised the stuff is bloody expensive, though, at $16 dollars/liter wholesale and $22 retail and hard to get. Probably no better than other synthetic 0W-40s, especially if they meet the new API SM standard. I am just being anal, most likely, by sticking to the Shell oil. Sort of like the guys sticking with AGIP oils because they are spelled out in older owners' manuals. Probably a good idea for us Ferrari guys to keep checking out what the latest Ferrari oil recommendations are for the newer cars and using that or its equivalent. All that "tighter tolerances" stuff for newer cars is BS. The new oils are superior, just like Dr Haas says.

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     
  6. ckracing

    ckracing Formula Junior

    May 20, 2006
    728
    Jacksonville,Florida
    Full Name:
    Charles
    Thank you Dr Haas. I will print your Oil Report and read it many many times until I can recall the information from memory.

    Charles
     
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  8. bpu699

    bpu699 F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 9, 2003
    8,552
    wisconsin/chicago
    Full Name:
    bo
    Kind of off topic here, but what are folks thoughts on Kendall Fully Synthetic?

    Just took the BMW to Goodyear for tires and an oil change, and Kendall is all they use now. $4/qt fully synthetic...

    Seems off brand to me but wonder what the pundits say...
     
  9. Stearman22

    Stearman22 Rookie

    Aug 12, 2008
    46
    Dana Point, CA
    Full Name:
    Jeffrey D. Campbell
    Thank you Dr. Slick em! You found me quite dumb on this subject!

    I am running not walking to nearest Mobil 1 / Redline dealer today with thin is better on the mind. This has been the most and best info I have ever read on "Oil, uncovered".

    I will keep checking back for more inputs and I will donate to F-chat today!

    Wow, I am giving Dr. Slick em, post of the year. My cars, engines, and wallet thank you!

    Poor boy
     
  10. Stearman22

    Stearman22 Rookie

    Aug 12, 2008
    46
    Dana Point, CA
    Full Name:
    Jeffrey D. Campbell
    #34 Stearman22, Nov 21, 2008
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2008
    I live in So. Cal., checked my '99 355 F1 start up pressure before I change the oil to Mobil 1.
    Start temp. 65 degrees F, 78.5 PSI (Ouch!) and it stays there for a while just wearing and tearing every time it's cold!
    Start temp. 75 " " " 75 PSI and still chewing away.


    Current oil?
    I only know that the oil change was done at an auth. Ferrari dealer in No. Cal.
    I will post the diff. tomrrow with Mobil 1 0w 20 from Kragen for $6.95 a quart.

    Poor boy
     
  11. Enzo888

    Enzo888 Rookie

    Sep 5, 2008
    8
    North Atlanta Suburb
    I can't believe I read this whole thing, or worse found it totally fascinating....LOL

    Comments:

    A few quick questions---

    1. How long do you normally warm up your Ford Expedition, in real use, when say, you have to run to the store....I don't want to sit there 20 minutes..esp. with gas at whatever it costs.

    2. With the virtues of synthetics, did you say you used mineral in your Ford Expedition ? If I read it right, Explain please..ummm, sounds like you're not trying to save a few bucks on oil, with all those fancy cars...

    3. Does the acidity of aspirin take the varnish off artery walls ?????

    Any way thanks for taking the tremendous amount of time it obviously took to prep this post.
     
  12. I'm gone

    I'm gone Formula Junior

    Feb 5, 2006
    606
    phoenix,az
    Full Name:
    Brian
    maybe I'm a little slow or just confused, but in my '94 348 should I use 5w-30 or 0w-40 synthetic for street driving in phoenix,az.?
     
  13. AEHaas

    AEHaas Formula 3

    May 9, 2003
    1,350
    Osprey, Florida
    Full Name:
    Ali E. Haas
    I never warm up the cars, I just start and go but keep the pressure on the gas peddle to a minimum. The Expedition gets Motorcraft 5W-20 semi-synthetic. I almost put this same oil in the Murcielago but discovered RLI bio-synthetic oils and am going to use this oil in all cars when other supplies run out.

    Choosing an oil grade involves driving the car the way you normally use it and comparing pressure to RPM. This is always done with the OIL fully warmed up.

    aehaas
     
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  15. I'm gone

    I'm gone Formula Junior

    Feb 5, 2006
    606
    phoenix,az
    Full Name:
    Brian
    what is the difference between mobil-1 0w-40 european car formula and and a bottle of reg. mobil-1 0w-40? I've found both.
     
  16. Stearman22

    Stearman22 Rookie

    Aug 12, 2008
    46
    Dana Point, CA
    Full Name:
    Jeffrey D. Campbell
    Hey Doc,

    Can you or anyone else tell me what 4.5 bars is = to PSI?

    Thanks,

    Poor Boy
     
  17. ferrari3.2T

    ferrari3.2T Rookie

    Nov 22, 2007
    14
    Sugar Land, Texas
    Full Name:
    Charles E Jacobs jr
    1 bar= 14.50 psi, so 4.5 bar is approximately 65.25 psi....
     
  18. Stearman22

    Stearman22 Rookie

    Aug 12, 2008
    46
    Dana Point, CA
    Full Name:
    Jeffrey D. Campbell
    Cool, so the manual that I have states that less than 4.5 bars at operating temp.

    "Working range" as they term it, a between 5.5 (79.75 PSI) and, 6.5 bars @ 6,000 RPM

    Approimates to:

    Idle < 62.3 PSI
    Normal operating range is 79.8 PSI to 92.3 PSI
    92.3 PSI @6,000 RPM

    Thanks again,
    Poor boy
     
  19. gcmerak

    gcmerak Formula 3

    Mar 17, 2008
    1,636
    Engine Bay, Georgia
    Full Name:
    George C.
    Would there not be a baseline oil pressure that is considered healthy. On the coldest days oil in Atlanta pours well, like syrup from IHOP. I put in 5W-40 Pennzoil Full Synthetic European Formula. Oil pressure seems the same as always 45psi at start up 30psi at 2000-2500rpm [that's highway cruising speed] and 45 psi at 3000 rpm [comfortably fast highway cruising speed]. It is, as it has always been. Now does that sound like a healthy psi.? Maybe it's time for a 0W-30?
    Ciao,
    George
     
  20. oldcoin

    oldcoin Karting

    May 1, 2006
    243
    Reno NV
    Full Name:
    Tony Mitchell
    Dr Haas,

    2 Questions please.

    What is the difference in the European and Regular Formula.

    As regards to the oil waxing up in the cold, does it recover when warmed.

    Thanks,
    Tony
     
  21. AEHaas

    AEHaas Formula 3

    May 9, 2003
    1,350
    Osprey, Florida
    Full Name:
    Ali E. Haas
    European oils often meet the ACEA spec. One requirement is that the oil stay in grade. To do this they generally start with an oil that is at the high end of the stated grade so that it stays in grade after thinning a little. Oils as the original US 0W-30 Mobil 1 were already at the bottom of the 30 grade scale would drop into the 20 grade scale and not meet the grade requirement. This oil actually thinned very little but because of its original spec at the bottom of 30 grade viscosity it "did not hold up". It actually was better than most other European oils that stayed in grade but thinned considerably. It is just that they started out at the thick end of the grade originally.

    Thickening of oil from the cold is only partially reversible. It is mostly a problem with fully mineral based oils and especially older ones. This is why I always said it was important to change the engine oil after a cold winter, in the spring. And do not store new oil in the cold garage.

    aehaas
     
  22. bang456

    bang456 Rookie

    Nov 19, 2008
    26
    Stavanger, Norway
    Full Name:
    Pål Flemming Bang
    Thank you Mr. Haas for an interesting post on Oils.

    What is your stand on Oil additive/tretments like Motor Silk(Boron tecnology), QMI and Slick 50(PTFE tecnology) etc

    I live in Norway (cold) and drive a beautiful 1996 mod. Ferrari 456 GT and a 1973 mod. Ferrari 365 GT4 2+2 95% on the road, 5% on track. What type/grade of Oil do you recomend i should use?

    Best regards

    Paul f. Bang
     
  23. AEHaas

    AEHaas Formula 3

    May 9, 2003
    1,350
    Osprey, Florida
    Full Name:
    Ali E. Haas
    Short response: I would not use oil additives.

    You can probably get 0W-40 Mobil 1 at many places to use in many Ferraris.

    aehaas
     
  24. Gary48

    Gary48 Guest

    Dec 30, 2003
    940
    #47 Gary48, Nov 30, 2008
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2008
    I would use boron technology for sure, plus it will last through several oil changes. Use it in your fuel as well.
     
  25. kosmo

    kosmo Formula 3

    Oct 19, 2008
    1,438
    BIg D
    I recently changed the oil in my Bimmer to 0w-30 (Mobil 1) from 5w-30 and I actually think it's quieter at ignition. The F-car is next! Thanks Dr Haas.
    BTW, I've heard due to Hurrican Ike, there is a shortage of some of the Mobil 1's, like 0-30 & 0-20.
     
  26. kosmo

    kosmo Formula 3

    Oct 19, 2008
    1,438
    BIg D
    Dr Haas,
    I am running 0w-30 and my Oil Temp seems be around 170F (same in the BMW) regardless of the ambient temp. What is the thickness at approx 170F? Is there a formula I can use to calculate this? I have quoted you below. Again thanks
    K



    "Oil type... Thickness at 75 F...Thickness at 212 F

    Straight 30...... 250......................10
    10W-30............100......................10
    0W-30..............40 ......................10

    Straight 10........30....................... 6"
     
  27. miketuason

    miketuason F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Feb 24, 2006
    12,211
    Cerritos, CA.
    Full Name:
    Mike
    DR. Haas, can I use this Renewable Lubricants Inc. bio-based oils on my 308 QV? And if so, where can I get this? Thanks
     

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