Motor Trend 360CS vs Gt3

Porsche has been building the same car for over 40 years now. It had better be good. I really think the P-car will nudge out the Ferrari by a bit of a margin. Reason being is as stated above 40 years working with the same basic engine is a long time to refine and get a really good strong peice that can take the abuse. Ferrari on the other hand, has had the 360 out since what '99 I beleive. The Ferrari has only been in production for 5 years.

Porsche makes some serious machinery, It will be hard for Ferrari to ever really lay a good beating on Porsche with in the realative price braket of the 2 cars.

Ferrari does deserve credit for doing so much with the 360 in such a short period of time. But like I said before..the 360CS is what the 360 should have been right from the start.

Tom

 

I disagree. As much as I love the CS, I see it as much less useful and pleasant in everyday driving. If you want a track-only or track-mostly car, I can see it, but for 90% of buyers, the 360 is more what they are looking for.

Gary

 

As someone who has driven both the CS and the GT3-RS both hard, and extensively, I'd like to make a few comments. Firstly I drove both these cars well after I had placed an order for a CS, which I am told will be arriving the end of June.
First drove the CS for about 6-700 miles. About 1 week later drove the RS about 350 miles. Without repeating the article in CAR magazine,I can honestly say that IMO most of the points made are indeed valid. The 911's engine feels just that slightly more urgent, although that is probably because it is just a tad more torquey. In order to get the CS to come alive you need it past 4500 rpm. The final delivery is probably about the same but just via a different route. The RS has the superior traction. Although the 911 feels slightly more wieldy than the CS it is very much a nervous car and juggles alot from side to side. The most severe criticism I have with the RS, and As CAR magazine suggested, was the fact that it is indeed a struggle trying to keep the car in a straight line, particularly at speeds above 130-150, unless the surface is anything other than billiard table smooth. The CS on the other hand is much more comforting and straight as an arrow in its progress. Not because it is soft but just more compliant. the thing that irritated me most about the RS was the fact that the front end spoiler kept bottoming out, making an almight noise, on even the most minor bump whereas unless I did something stupid, the CS never did! Although the RS engine sounds great the CS exhaust is , much much better to the ears.

The stupidest comment in the article was the "911 is to most of us the better looking shape" C'mon!

IN conclusion, I have to say that I was very much pleasantly surprised with the RS, and despite the aforementioned downsides I very much liked it. Even the wide boy look of the white/red decals actually looks better in the flesh than you would imagine(I hated it in the photos before I saw it). I would say that the RS is more track orientated than the CS, the CS being better for the street, but both give equal amounts of joy to their drivers. If I had only £84000 to spend, I would not feel at all short changed by buying the RS. At this price it is unmatched. I have to say the CS does NOT deliver £50000 more feedback/feel/precision to the driver than the RS. That said I am in an fortunate position to be able to comfortably spend £50k more if necessary, and to me the CS is £50k more beautiful and exclusive than the RS, and therefore can justify my purchase. But the best comment came from a colleague of mine, who owns a 996TT who I took for a spin in the CS. He said the sound alone is worth £50k It's as simple as that.

 

To behonest, that's why I sold my GT2, it suffered the same problem.. I found that I was going slower than "lesser" cars on backroads etc, simply because the car wouldn't stay planted.

Take a look at this movie to see what (non existent) suspension travel it had : http://195.60.14.69/picdir/porsche/GT2.wmv

Braking isn't much fun when there's an uneven camber and you're only braking with 3 tyres connected..

On the first day of owning it, I took the car to a favourite bit of road that I pounded regularly with my 400bhp Skyline.. I wound the GT2 up to the usual 120mph or so, hit a rise in the tarmac that the Skyline would have shrugged of, instead the GT2 suddenly lifted front of the car and deposited us 6 feet to the right.. EEK! They're not dubbed "Widow makers" for nothing.

Great track cars, great motorway cars.. just no good for bumpy roads or twisty turny stuff.

 

It's ironic that you should say that because a colleague of mine was killed in his new GT2 4 months ago. Fortunately his two small children who were in the back survived unscathed. I don't know the exact circumstances about the accident but do know he was going fast then for some reason hit the inside barrier of the motorway(highway) then veered off the embankement and hit a tree. Very sad. And he wasn't a novice with fast cars either.

 

The 360 engine block is essentially the same block as the first 308s from the late 1970s. New cylinder liners have been fitted 4 times {308, 328, 348, 355} and new crankshafts 5 times {308, 328, 348, 355, 360} and new heads 5 times {308, QV, 328, 348, 355} new intake tracks 8 times. I know a 355 engine can be machined out of a 360 block casting. I believe you could machine a 308 QV block from a 360 casting if you really tried hard.

Porsche has had to change the block several times as the displacement of the engine and weight of the car grew and more importantly as the power levels grew. The current water cooled block shares nothing with the original Porsche engines from the late 1960s except cylinder count and engine location.

Where the Ferrari engine has grown from 3.0 litres to 3.6 litres (20%) the Porsche engine grew from 2.0 litres to 3.6 in road trim (80%) and 3.8 (90%) in air cooled race trim (RS).

I would claim, loosely, that both engines are essentially equally old. I would also claim that by selling cars in Porsche quantities gives Porsche an advantage in "funding" the engine development/engineering department.

 

BINGO!!

 

Yes, very sad indeed.. I think the story made it into the papers as I recall The thing that puzzled me at the time was that the GT2 only has 2 seats, and no rear seats, which made me wonder where the 2 children sat ?

 

Yes, I never thought about that before. It's unlikely both would be sitting in the front though. Mmm..

 

i don't feel that way at all. i've owned three 360 modenas and put a combined total of 20,000 miles on them. i drove these cars everyday. they were teriffic. BUT now that i have a 360CS i have concluded that the CS is by far a much better car and even more fun to drive than a modena...it's essentially the same as a 360 modena, but improved in every way possible. better road feel, better sound, better acceleration, better brakes, better looks, etc. anybody who would enjoy a 360 modena would absolutely love a stradale.

 

Personally, I think MT blows, but I picked up this issue because of the comparision.

Taken from the text: "Although it has a special button dubbed "Launch Control," Senior Road Test Editor Chris Walton still had to work it a bit to get just the right combination of revs and wheel spin at sendoff. These are road racers, not dragsters; the Porsches slick-shifting six-speed manual and the Ferrari's race-inspired F1 box are more suited for a road course than a quarter-mile's bleach box. It's also worth mentioning that we've tested standard 360 Modenas to slightly quicker times than this and suspect that this well-abused, early-build example's clutch was well on its way to heaven. We're confident that if all were right, this is a 3.9-4.0-second car."

Interestingly, the Ferrari pulled out higher acceleration gs than the Porsche, .48 g to .45 g, which confirms the claims of some other magazines (Evo and Autocar) that the Stradale is in fact quicker from a roll.
The GT3 is a hell of a car though and if I couldn't swing the price of the Stradale I would surely have one in the garage.

 

All I know is that I delivered a Stradale to a customer a couple of months ago. He had a GT3 for a grand total of around 2 weeks and then got rid of it.......he said that it just didn't thrill him. He still owns the Stradale!

 

Never having driven a Stradale I bow to your superior knowledge. I had the impression from articles and tests that the Stradale would be awfully noisy and rough for everyday use. I'm gonna have to beg a ride in one to find out for sure, but it sounds much more intruiging from your report.

Gary

 

I think it's important to note that the Challenge Stradale means essentially road challenge or a version of the 360 Challenge car for the road. The CS is not designed to be just used on the track but is intended to be a track useable road car which is perhaps a different thing the RS which is essentially a track car. In driving the CS the road friendly nature of the car is obvious when compared to the Porsche and the CS when driven as a road car (not being caned) is not far removed from the Modena in firmness, noise etc. Perhaps this is why things don't light up until 4500rpm

 

I concur absolutely. The CS is a great car that manages to be both hardcore and easy to do long distances in. I can't tell you about running costs yet (don't even want to think about it to be honest) but in pretty much every way they've improved the 360 Modena. And I haven't even run mine in yet.

 

excuse my ignorance but how is the gt3 rs different than the gt3..is the horsepower the same? i still dont see how a 3100 lb car with 380 hp can do 12 for the 1/4 and sub 4 0-60?

 

would rather mod a 360 or 996 than gt3 or cs but if forced i would choose the p over f. i would be more confident in p ability to handle abuse without falling apart. also more faith in p dealer network to handle inevitable warantee problems quicker and with less hassle. this takes f superior style and cache into account too.

 

well "superior knowledge" sounds like i'm smarter than i am but let me assure you that once you drive a stradale you will be 100% convinced that it can be driven and enjoyed everyday. before i got my stradale i was a bit concerned that it might be too loud or too "tight" to drive around town. i was pleasantly surprised. even my wife has commented that the stradale is actually comfortable and not too loud. but when you jump all over it and drive very hard it does get quite a bit louder...but that's all part of the fun and enjoyment of the stradale! once you settle down and drive like a normal person then the noise level drops and everybody is happy. also, the stradale is noticeably "tighter" than the 360 modena. what i mean is the stradale feels totally planted to the road under all conditions and speeds. it feels GREAT. if you're on a really crappy road it can get annoying, but it would be equally annoying in any sportscar but once you get back on a decent road and nail it you immediately forget the crappy road and smile it's the best car i've ever driven. if you enjoy a 360 modena you will absolutely love a stradale!

 

i have 1000 miles on mine now it's a blast to run it hard every opportunity i get

one thing i noticed that surprised me (maybe this is obvious, but it surprised me) is that the brakes don't seem to throw off that black brake dust like my modena did. my wheels stay amazingly clean. i still wipe them off fairly often (my wife tells me they have medication that might help me), but there is so little brake dust that it's easy to keep the entire wheel (even the hard to reach parts) looking like new.

one other thing that i've noticed that surprised me is that althought he stradale is lower than the modena (about half an inch or maybe one inch?) i don't have problems scrapping the front bumper. i can get in and out of the same driveways as a modena. before i got the stradale i figured i'd be scrapping up the front bumper all the time. i'm happy to say that it's not a problem at all.

 

FYI, A GT2 doesn't have a back seat. Perhaps you were thinking of the turbo.

 

"cojones" are balls

"cajones" are cardboard boxes

LOL!!!

i doubt you meant cardboard boxes

 

360 CS over GT3 by far.