Motronic 2.7 codes not pullable and Vescovini 142581 unplugged | FerrariChat

Motronic 2.7 codes not pullable and Vescovini 142581 unplugged

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by Mondi Cab, Jun 20, 2022.

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  1. Mondi Cab

    Mondi Cab Karting

    Oct 9, 2019
    170
    EU
    Full Name:
    J.Schulz
    Bongiorno Fchat !

    Since I have read about the error codes to be pulled out of the CEL's, I occasionally tried it, but no luck.
    As I had several switches that revived after de-oxydizing then, I gave those 2 buttons in the trunk ('92 T cab US) a good spray but still no codes.
    I followed Ernie's step by step instruction, but the lights simply stay on all the time, button pushed or not. (ignition on, engine not started, 5sec. push to button) 10sec. also did nothing.

    Whilst admiring the amount of electronics to be hidden behind that boot cover, I found two Vescovini 142581 devices left and right that both had a disconnected lead. Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Doing the research, these are the Cat's ECUs, and even on a diagram they seem to have one lead going to the lambda sond in the Cat but the second lead seems to be unattached.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    I hope I am not missing a connection here , but since I can't pull my Motronic Error codes, I am getting weary the disconnected leads might be part of the cause.....

    Best regards,

    Mondi Cab
     
  2. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    13,567
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    You want to make sure that the push button device is actually connected to the ECU diagnostic ports/pins.

    On a 2.7, the vescoviny does not need to be connected at all for the engine to run and to function correctly. It's like your appendix. You don't need it.
     
  3. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    BANNED Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,822
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    #3 Steve Magnusson, Jul 7, 2022
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2022
    The connector in that SPC figure that seems connected to nothing is connected to the main harness (which is not shown in that SPC figure) where it gets +12V and ground and connects to the slowdown warning light in the dash (or it might connect to the Motronic 2.7 ECU that then connects to run the slowdown warning light in the dash -- I don't have a schematic for your model to check).

    PS That metal jumper wire in the red/yellow connector in your photo connecting the two female pins is there to simulate the conductivity of a thermocouple and "fool" the Vescovini unit -- so some shenanigans were going on. Do you have cats still present on your car?
     
  4. Mondi Cab

    Mondi Cab Karting

    Oct 9, 2019
    170
    EU
    Full Name:
    J.Schulz
    Good morning Steve,

    Yes, the car does have Cats, however not OEM. It was running on straight pipes & tubi when I had a first look at it (delicious sound) but could not get a license plate like that in the EU, so we had to put cats on again.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    They got some JMJ brand to put on as they matched in lenght. (and flow according to the mechanics back then).

    What you say about the shenanigans would make sense now: Who ever took the original cats out had to fool the unit. Who ever put the present cats in, did not know about that.......

    Would you suggest to leave it as is or search for some loose ends dangling somewhere ?
    And could this have anything to do with not being able to pull the Motronic codes ?

    Mondi Cab
    Jan
     
  5. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    BANNED Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,822
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    If you have real, working cats in place, IMO, you should have a working system to detect overheating cat(s). Know that this won't be cheap if you have to buy new Vescovini units and thermocouples (and find those missing harness connectors). One way to judge the "health" of the Vescovini units is to confirm/deny if the self-test always works properly (i.e., the warning lights should come "on" for a second, or two, at first key "on" and then go out). If you can find the harness connectors and plug in the Vescovini units (and leave the thermocouple jumpers in place), the self-test should work. If the self-test doesn't work (like the warning light never come "on" or it stays stuck "on") = you can be pretty sure that the corresponding Vescovini unit is bad (which is very common failure).

    No, I don't think that it should have anything to do with getting the flashing light Motronic failure codes.

    However, I thought on Motronic 2.7 that Ferrari had implemented sending the Vescovini "happy" (or maybe unhappy) signal to the Motronic ECUs since no one ever stopped when those warning lights came "on" and just kept driving ;) -- but this conflicts with Mitchell's post (and I have no information otherwise). Could be that on some models (like 512TR) they do connect this Vescovini signal to the 2.7 Motronic ECUs and go into a "limp" mode (or shutdown that bank's fuel supply) if it reports unhappy, but don't connect it/use it on other models (like yours). If you can find those missing harness connectors, there may be some shenanigans going on there, too (to artificially create a "happy" signal). Of course, if the schematic shows that there is no signal connected from the Vescovini units to the 2.7 Motronic ECUs = would prove Mitchell is correct. Also, if the Vescovini units are connected to the 2.7 Motronic ECUs, but the "happy" signal is no signal, and unplugging the Vescovini unit is no signal = unplugging them would have no effect as Mitchell indicated.
     
  6. OpenAirFan

    OpenAirFan Karting

    Aug 10, 2008
    72
    Krefeld, Germany
    When the Mondial was built, Ferrari only had ceramic Cats from Fiat. These were not temperature resistant. Hence the Vescovinos , which switched off the Motronic for the respective cylinder bank at relatively low temperatures. Modern metal Cats are much more temperature-resistant and do not require temperature monitoring in a vehicle such as the mondial. Vescovinos can and should therefore be removed without replacement. I did this in two Mondials without any Problems over more than ten years.
     
  7. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    BANNED Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,822
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    #7 Steve Magnusson, Jul 8, 2022
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2022
    If the cat survives, it doesn't help much if your surrounding coachwork is on fire ;)

    What year(s) Mondial or what injection system used on these Mondial you mention? Certainly on the Bosch CIS model Mondial there is zero functional operational difference whether the Vescovini-type unit(s) is(are) plugged in or not -- but that doesn't prevent the cat from overheating if there's a problem.
     
  8. OpenAirFan

    OpenAirFan Karting

    Aug 10, 2008
    72
    Krefeld, Germany
    Ts with motronic 2.5 and 2.7. If you feel better keep the Vescovinos. My mechanic removed them and I trust him.
     
  9. Mondi Cab

    Mondi Cab Karting

    Oct 9, 2019
    170
    EU
    Full Name:
    J.Schulz
    Great reply's thank you both !
    I guess I'll leave it as it is then because the "slow down" and "check engine" lights do all 4 come on at ignition and then go of once the engine runs. So that part is completely as it should be.

    I'll concentrate on those code switches next time in the boot because I'd really like that feature.

    Best regards,
    Mondi Cab
    Jan
     

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