Movit brakes vs Girodisc brakes - 355

I'm purchasing the 370mm disks all around, F: 6 piston, R: 4piston calipers for my F355B, I can let you know as soon as I receive mine, in 3-4 weeks.

 

I can tell you the Girodisc guys really know their stuff. Eric there used to be an engineer for Brembo!

 

Don't have specific experience on the 355 from Girodisc, but I'm testing the direct replacement Girodiscs on 360 Challenge. They seem to be well made and casting is a little lighter than OEM 360C.

A set of floating discs will reduce your unsprung weight quite a bit compared to 355's solid discs, so they should improve the handling on bumpy streets. Along with a set of better aftermarket pads, it's probably the best value for money for street use. Not sure if this constitutes "illegal modification" in HK.

No need to go to 330mm or 350mm Brembo kits with new calipers, unless you plan on extensive trackdays in future. I think I paid HK$22,000 for a Brembo 330mm front kit including calipers some years ago.

 

I have some experience when it comes to AP Racing, Brembo and MOVIT brakes.

AP Racing and Brembo brakes are racing brakes, in my opinion good for a race car, but far too weak to stop a heavy car or a high performance sports car. Most of the parts are there completely different designed compared to MOVIT since the application purpose is a different one.

Calipers
For example the Brembo 8-piston, it has small pistons 28/32 mm, four small pads per caliper and a "long" body design. It shows bad response to abs, develops too much heat because of small pads and has a weak body since cast from alsi7 and the design is too long. Yet again they are suitable for a race car with low brake booster power, but not for a heavy and fast car like the performance cars nowdays with high pressure brake booster ( >150 bar)

MOVIT on the other hand with its 6-piston BILLET design, bigger pistons (34/36/38 mm), longer pads (108 cm²), BILLET CNC machined from highest strength 7075 aluminium and T6 heat treated. The caliper is much stronger than others and will not loose its strength even under high temperatures like cast calipers. Huge pads guarantee low temperatures and less wear of both discs and pads. CNC machined calipers need less space than cast calipers that can be used with a bigger disc under the same rim as the cast calipers. There are bigger pistons to generate immense braking force which in my opinion is needed to stop heavy and fast performance cars.

Rotors
Most of the manufactures use friction ring with "normal" ventilation system, 56-60 mm friction ring height, drilled holes (5-6 mm). The rotors again is suitable for a race car, but not for a long term trouble free use on a heavy and fast street car. All cars generate much more heat than a race car, so the rotor will wear out extremly quick. Further more, the holes will crack almost immediately since they are too big and positioned too close to the outer edge of the rotors. There for other manufactures offer only "plain" or "slotted" discs, but the disadvantage is a bad response in wet conditions.

MOVIT uses friction rings with a special double ventilation system. This gives between 80-100% bigger cooling surface, 68 mm friction ring height and pre-cast holes 4 mm. This generates far lower temperature since the cooling surface is bigger and also since the bigger pad transfers the heat to a bigger surface. This results in longer lifetime of both pads and rotors. The holes last far longer before cracking and WILL NEVER crack to the outside of the rotor which would require an exchange of the rotor. MOVIT rotors are simply designed and concepted for heavy and fast street cars.

Brackets
MOVIT brackets are CNC machined from high grade steel compound ( 1.7131 ). "Form follows function", giving a closer look at the brackets it is easily visible that MOVIT makes the strongest and lightest designed brackets. They should not only fit perfect, but also be
extremely strong and design with no sharp edges. Since the brackets are made from high grade steel compound, they last forever.

Other brake manufactures offer aluminium brackets, with threads cut into the aluminium. This is dangerous, since aluminium is aging, meaning that it can crack. Also, the thread cut into the aluminium will not last long if an unskilled person tries to tighten the bolt that holds the caliper. This thread will easily wear, especially when a securing compound as Loctite or simlar is used. As always, MOVITs goal is lifetime and easy use. Since MOVIT have to TÜV-approve their brake kits, there is another reason why to use high grade steel compound.

Cheers!
/Per

 

Both AP and Brembo make road as well as race calipers.
They also have a variety of rotor designs for different applications.
Movit makes pre packaged solutions for brake upgrades on street cars.
AP and Brembo manufacture the componants for braking specialists to design specialist and unrivalled braking solutions IMO.

 

Ok, where do I begin?

The F355 came from Ferrari with too little rotor. They suffer from excessive heat build up and wear. Race pads help fade issues, but only for a short time before the OE rotor sizes are maxed out for heat dissipation. The 355 Challenge cars used brakes with the same piston area as OE, but racing calipers with vastly larger rotors.

Girodisc has an AP racing 6 piston caliper, 360mm disc brake kit designed and prototyped for the F355. We have not tested it yet or fit it to a car. The Ferrari market is difficult at best, so we are waiting to see if there is sufficient demand to go forward. We currently build F355 Chalenge replacement rotors, and they are available now.


Pelle75,
I agree that the Movit is a good kit for the F355.
However, lets talk Brembo for a second.
Brembo SpA owns AP racing.
Movit makes high quality brake kits for sure. They design and build well thought out kits. Movit started out by using Brembo built Porsche calipers and rotors and applying them in kits for other cars. They approached Brembo to build them a caliper, but the costs were too high, and they found another source.

Brembo calipers are too weak to stop a high performance sports car?!?
Let me see, a list of names of manufacturers who disagree:
Ferrari -all
Maserati-all
Porsche-all
Lamborghini-all
Aston Martin-all
Ford
Cadillac
Dodge Viper-all
AMG Mercedes-all
Audi
Volkswagen
Alfa Romeo
Honda
Nissan
Acura
Infiniti
Seat
Lotus
Bugatti
and the list goes on....

Do you honestly believe these companies use Brembo calipers if they dont work well with ABS, high system pressures etc..The answer is no. The parts are tested and developed to a degree that no other brake company can match, that is why they are the best, that is why they cost the most, and that is why these companies choose to pay the cost and use them. I would like to see some data to back up your claims of weakness, or high pad temps, etc...

The basic cast 8p Brembo you speak of is used by AMG mercedes and Audi for the RS models, as well as the Lamborghini Murcielago. All of which are VERY heavy sports cars. Funny thing, the Enzo used CAST aluminum 6 piston Bembos, no complaints about those. The Brembo 8 piston 28/32 piston combination is repated 4 times, so the piston area is the same as a 40/44,
4 piston caliper. Not a valid argument there.

Anyway the point is that Movit DOES make brake kits that I would reccomend.
But Movit parts began as Brembo parts and everything they do now is legacy of lessons they learned from those parts. The anti-Brembo argument is completely invalid.

Ok, so Tonyyoshi,
I recommend the Movit kit as a good choice.
I also recommend the Brembo kit available from Race Technologies.
As for the Girodisc kit, we are looking for somebody to commit to the first kit.
Let me know if it interests you and we can talk about it.

-Eric

 

This is the single most important point of this thread-

Cast vs. billet-

These are just manufacturing techniques. Cast is for high volume, milled billet is for low volume for the most part. Most cast parts are cast rough then milled to spec. Both must be used with the right materials to be effective.

Either technology applied improperly results in a poor product.

Just because it is billet does not mean it is superior, and just because it is cast does not mean it will be failure proof.

As for the issue of Brembo- they supply virtually every motorsport, from karts to motorcycles to all cars including NASCAR, short track, LMES, F1 and many, many others. I don't think they have a problem supplying street solutions either to virtually the entire automotive industry. If anything, AP's association with Brembo since the acquisition has strengthened their reputation, although AP supplies mostly to the aftermarket and racing industry since they don't incorporate a dust seal in their design like the street Brembo calipers.

As for the rotors- get the ones that fit your budget, and if possible, get the ones that upsize your fronts (at least) to 355x32mm. If you can upsize the rears too, make sure your brake bias is set correctly for the increased rear braking power.

Cheers!

 

Do you just mean Girodisc *rotors*? They don't make a full upgraded brake *package* for the 355 as far as I know.

 

Tony:

You might want to consider changing you brake pads & brake fluid too for trackday use. ZIC is very hard on the brakes.

On a hot day even 360 Challenge brakes overheats in a 30 minute session and that's with the extra air flippers on the cool air duct!

I have since switched to PFC pads and Castrol SRF fluid.

Regards,
cwwhk

 

To make a comment about why manufactures uses Brembo

OE manufacturers look for the best price, not for the best quality. Just that they use brembo does not mean they have good brakes. brembo has the ability to make CHEAP aluminium calipers.
Brembo calipers are not too expensive, but too "slowly" to buy a new caliper it would take 2 year before available for sale. Within such a long process MOVIT can decide to improving and changing parts / designs of a
caliper several times. Thats why MOVIT produces its own calipers in house. Result is more flexible to various demand and technicaly better solutions.

And best of all for very good price nowdays

Here is a comment by a "heavy" Audi RS6 owner that changed his OE Brembo RS6 sportbrakes http://www.movit-scandinavia.com/en/products_audirs6.asp


Cheers
/Per

 

You have a good point.

Movit does move very fast in the market. The ranges of applications for the calipers and rotors is very good. Everything appears to be quality designed and made. Like I said, the movit is a very good product. I have recommended them on several occasions.

However - its obvious you are trying to sell the movit brand on these forums.
Just come clean and introduce yourself to the community here. You arent fooling anyone into thinking you are giving unbiased advice.

You think the Brembos are cheap? go price a CCM Ferrari or Porsche set, I know what they cost to produce in development and per part cost. Brembo wont make any money on them for years to come. It is an investment in technology that a company like movit is many years from being able to make. Also maybe you are unaware - I can speak to this as I am a former Brembo engineer.

You let me know when Movit is on a championship winning Formula one, LeMans, or Rally car...-Then you can badmouth Brembo or any other brake companies products.

Sell your product on its strengths, not by trying to tear down the established leaders in the field. - and make the effort to subscribe to these boards at least.

-Eric

 

Hell and thanks Eric, good to hear from a man who knows about brakes more than most of us together.
Take care
Roland
F40LM

 

Movit better than Brembo/AP in any application......where's my Crack Pipe? let me join you.

All I know is that it's more about sizing your master cylinder bore(s), piston bore(s), pedal ratio, disc size, etc. per your application. I can guarantee you, there is a Brembo/AP/Alcon caliper out there for virtually "any" application regardless of vehicle.

It's simple fluid dynamics to get the right pressures, balance, feel, etc, and then the structure to handle the given torque and friction loads per that vehicle.

355 Challenge cars were retrofitted with Brembo Indycar endurance calipers....and they work beotch'n....especially if you get rid of the ABS and install a dual master setup. Those calipers were designed for cars weighing what under 1500 lbs....and the Challenge car is more than double the weight.........

In racing it's also about unsprung weight..........for starters and it's usually not about money, but about what works the best.

I would not argue with Eric, I've conversed with him outside of the Ferrari world, he knows his ****.

d

 

Hi Roland! Good to see you are doing well. I wouldnt claim to know that much about anything, but thanks for the compliment!
-and same to you Mr Moore. I only hope to help out when I can.

I really do think that the Movit brake systems are well done and worth reccomending.
My issue with Per and his postings is that Movit started life by building kits for cars out of Brembo Porsche calipers and rotors. Only recently have they started manufacturing their own components - based on everything they learned from using Brembo parts.

So for him to come on and say that Brembos are no good and cheap, well that just wont fly.

You dont stand on the shoulders of giants and claim to be the tallest.

 

I *really* like that! I'll have to remember that one.

 

From my very modest wrenching and reading, i would have to take major issue with Pers comments about road cars being a more demanding application for brakes than racing.

As has been pointed out above, it is simple physics, mass times velocity squared = heat that has to be gotten rid of. Generally road cars are a lot heavier than race cars, but the killer is velocity SQUARED and the constant, near maximum braking effort. If you start with a "heavy" 3000 pound road car and repeatedly stop it from way higher than normal road speeds, you clearly need a lot more brake.

For sure manufacturers dont want to spend more than they have to , but many do opt for quality stuff e.g. Brmbo. But, just because the manufacturer put Brembos on does not mean that budgetary considerations didn't drive the choice in which Brembo components to have installed. This is clearly the case with the Audi mentioned above and the 355 Ferrari with 310 mm discs.

Does installing 380 mm Movit floating discs and massive 6 piston calipers mean that the car(s) will stop better?? for sure. But does it mean that Movit brakes are "better" or more cost effective brakes than Brembo??? Not necessarily.

Harder use demands larger and more powerful components. Brembos universal presence im motor sports clearly indicates that the quality is there.

My guess is that with the larger engineering staff, experience and economies of scale that Brembo could provide very high quality, comperable sized components at less cost.

my .02
chris

 

IMHO Eric and Martin of Girodisc KNOW THEIR STUFF far beyond any basic guy posting here. The guys at Girodisc have THOUSANDS of hours of REAL testing in the REAL WORLD and yes, on REAL tracks. They have REAL knowledge with REAL components and have done more than their share of 'homework.'

Choose whatever brakes you want, but remember in the REAL world when you are going over 140mph and need to stop, lap after lap, time and time again, i would want to rely on REAL people with REAL experience who i can depend to BE THERE when i need them and have REAL answers to my questions.

BTW: Martin, i should have ordered another set of 6-slot rear rotors for the 308 here. All these track days in 2005 and highly aggressive pads i use... you know the rest. Build, ship, and bill me

PS: and Roland KNOWS when to brake... and they had better work in the REAL world.

(Sarchasm here) Oh, and i think Roland has seen one, maybe two track days in his life.

 

Brembo all the way!!!! Please check my thread on installed brake package on my 355b. My opinion the best package for 355.....Brakes are unbeliveable!!

 

You ought to put a picture of your car in your profile...