MP4 prices are really plummeting on resale

are these cars any fun to drive or are they just fast and clinical?

 

That's the million dollar question. In checking out your garage (BTW, impressive collection of cars), I noticed you also have a Scuderia. For me, I'd be moving out of a Scuderia and into a 12c, i.e. I'm not in a position to own both. The Scuderia is definitely a fun and lively car, and because of this, it makes it feel like you are going faster than you really are. By no means am I calling the Scuderia slow, but the drama, noise, brutishness all contribute positively to the experience (if that is what you are after).

I've only taken two moderate length test drives in 12c's. I'd call it quick and VERY fast, but more civilized. I'm not a 10/10ths driver by any means, so in either car I'm not going to extract the best out of what each has to offer. I'd say that the 12c will make good drivers better, and a better driver is required for the Scuderia for the same performance level. 'Fun' can be described and interpreted so many different ways. So if 'fun' is based on the sheer feeling of acceleration and going fast, then I'd imagine the 12c would be tremendous 'fun' for that group. But if 'fun' is based on living on the fine line of being in control, and testing your control vs. dynamics of the car, then I suspect the 12c will seem more clinical vs. the Scuderia. There just seem to be so many systems and engineering in the 12c to manage that control on your behalf (apparently they can be turned off; not something I plan on doing personally since I don't track).

For me, the switch is about trying something new. Perhaps it'll be like a 2-3yr long test drive. And if I end up not liking it, then I'll switch to something else. Maybe even back to a Scuderia!

 

Don described it well above and I know he is looking for a "smoother ride" (still can't believe he's getting rid of the Scud!)

Art I know you had a CGT before...I did a canyon run recently in the CGT with a 12C behind me. I was pushing fairly hard and concentrating. The 12C was on my ass the whole time. After we were done, he said the 12C felt so "easy."
I think you are right - smooth, fast and clinical.


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Hmm a scud or a 12C, I guess it depends on what you want. My bet is the 12C will be awhole lot less expensive to run and far more daily useable, as special occasion or weekend blast car its no comparison to the scud.

If such a llow mileage car is going for an ask of 170kish, then the 650 is surely causing the 12c to depreciate even faster. I wonder how low they will go. At 100k a 12C will make an awesome daily.

 

The big question is how will the small Mclaren impact the 12C value. It probably wont be as fast as the 12C but since it's going against the 911/911 Turbo, it wont be slow either. And i dont see them coming at anything less than $150k. So you will soon have the choice between a 500ish HP new car or a 2012 12C.

 

You guys just keep waiting, soon the cars will be free, but even then you'll want to know how soon someone will pay you to drive one.

I think the biggest depreciation hit on the McLaren is over. You can buy a nice used coupe for $180K range but you are dreaming if you think you will buy one for $100K any time this decade. A ten-year old Gallardo is not too much less.

Frankly, the inflation for 911 Twin Turbos, the 650S, heck the sticker on a Viper can be $140K is going to limit depreciation substantially.

A quick Cars.com search shows 99 MP4-12Cs for sale with a low ask of $185K, and 184 458 Italias with a low ask of $180K. So I'd say that a 2010 458 and 2012 McLaren are about the same in price at present. Hard to say which one will depreciate more over the next few years, but I doubt it will be a huge difference either way.

 

Keith, right on the money, this is the first time been on here for a while, what everyone forgets is the delta of a $100K plus between a 650S and a 12C. I don't see a $30K difference between the two.

 

Wow that's crazy expensive. I think he's wrong. That may be the average price with options but not the MSRP.

With 12c's out there at less than 200k, there's no way they can sell a 650 at $310. You can get a new well equipped 458 spider for that!

Makes me wonder if the "real" price is 50K off the MSRP so people feel good they got "a deal".

 

Yea it does seem high and a bold move after seeing how 12C prices fell.
I didn't ask him if that was a fully optioned car.
It does seem that they worked on two areas: design and ride feel. Whether or not it's an improvement will soon be told.


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Someone on the Mac forum says that's not the right MSRP and they have already put down a deposit. I think either your dealer guy at the show hasn't a clue or he was just saying what most will sell for after options.

I think the real question will be if dealers hold to the MSRP price or immediately bend to discounting. I've heard people are getting 50K off the asking price of spiders now as a START for negotiations. Once the 650s' arrive, anything in stock is going to have to be liquidated quickly.

If they bend under pressure for the 650s right away, the resale prices will sink like a stone. One reason why Ferrari's don't devalue as much is it's extremely difficult to get one under MSRP until the last year of production.

 

Could be...he was a rep from the Newport Beach dealership.
Have the prices been released yet?
I know the orange one on display at the Desert Concorso was sold.


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I don't know about the US but in the UK they have been released.

What I would do is just call the dealer and ask.

My feeling is I would wait until one shows up on the dealers floor and wrangle a deal. Cars ordered from the factory will probably be hard to get a deal but those unsold won't have the same issue.

 

MSRP on the Spider is $280K, which includes stuff like CCBs, alcantara interior, and some other stuff. Coupe is probably about $15K less.

Looks pretty awesome imo:
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MSRP on a 2013 12c Spider is $267K not including CCBs which is a $15K option, or $282K if you add them together. I don't think 2014 12c's are priced too differently. This puts the 12c and 650S at pricing parity, at least at the start before any configuration.

 

that does look good. Would love to see one with the multi spoke sport wheels.

 

Not so good in color though. The elongated honeycomb grills on the sides look pretty weird, as does the nose. I think the new side scoop is a step backwards.
I think it's a love it or hate it thing.
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650S Coupe and Spider pricing here: McLaren 650S Coupe & Spider pricing announced (US)

 

Interesting that CCB's are now standard. I wonder if you can order it with steel brakes. I think the steel brakes were popular for a lot of 12c owners.

0-60 time of 3.0 sec for the spider is just mind blowing.

 

Pics from Newport Beach, right? Well, the 650S front is certainly more exotic looking than the 12c. Some will still prefer the looks of the 12c, which is more understated. I do prefer the twin side blade design of the 12c myself.

One thing for sure, the 650S front will be much more difficult to clean! And I'd hate to be the detailer or clear bra installer!!!

 

It is probably cognitive dissonance, but I like the look of my 12C better, especially the dual side intake. I'd like the 650 hp, though. Wonder if it is hardware or software. I'd sure like to see McLaren hold the line on pricing and production volume. We shall see, I suppose.

 

According to this McLaren 650S review, price and specs | evo it seems to be mostly hardware: "Most of the extra straight line performance over a standard 12C (which hits 60mph in 3.1sec) comes from the reworked engine, which has new pistons, cylinder heads and exhaust valves and revised cam timing."

 

I think the 12c looks better in pics but the 650s looks better in person (I saw it in geneva).

 

So base price for the 650 of $265k coupe and $280k spider.

two questions:

1) how does that compare to 12c?
2) Is the 650 replacing the 12c, or do they intend to sell both?

 

Found this...this writer is wondering the same...why do they offer both? Will both indeed end up for sale in a years' time? Interesting comparison and story here:

https://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motoramic/driving-the-mclaren-650s-supercar-202509860.html

 

It seems it can be ordered with steel brakes. About the 4 minute mark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMB4TS6sCYo&feature=youtu.be