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Mr. Glickenhaus

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by Dilusha, Aug 19, 2018.

  1. technom3

    technom3 F1 Veteran
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    What? Seriously! For what?
     
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  3. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    that's why not concerned, pretty typical when person doesn't think they can get to the source, they try to pressure the medium. why in the heck would Jim with all his resources be afraid of going after Steve directly? because Steve is overseas? because Steve has backers? I don't know the level or how deep, but what the FerrariChat fan's don't realize is that most collectors of similar real Ferraris and the historians don't see it as Jim does. maybe Jim afraid that Steve has more powerful backers than even he can handle? does anyone really think that Steve came up with all the detailed information all on his own?
     
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  4. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    I guess it deserves its own clear post. If Jim has hinted and threatened legal action against so many, why hasn't the source of 99% of Jim's disdain been taken action against?
     
  5. JAM1

    JAM1 F1 Rookie
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    COPIED FROM FERRARISM (Hopefully Steve won't mind me posting it here). Mauro Forghieri, designer/creator at Ferrari of the real 330 P3/P4 #0846, Steve Robertson an email on 10th May, 2016, the content of which, in his words in Italian, is as follows below. Scroll down for English translation:

    “Gent.mo Sig. Robertson
    Io penso che lei sia il maggiore esperto di P4 esistente.La serie di foto
    che mi ha inviato mi hanno fatto enorme piacere, in particolare quella
    della 412 s/n854
    prima nuda e poi in restauro.Le devo comunque fare osservare che sia la
    vettura
    di Glinkenhaus che la vera P4 s/n 0858 non hanno il tubo da lei indicato
    con le frecce rosse nella foto n 4(412 P s/n0854 ) mentre hanno il tubo
    che lei indica
    sempre con le frecce nella foto n 3(dp3 arrows).Questo diversa soluzione è
    dovuta alle differenze tra motore 412 e 330.La parte posteriore del telaio
    della falsa P4 di Glinkenhaus è stata fatta nuova e questi particolari non
    potevano sfuggire ai carrozzieri, che avevano già costruito vere P4.E’
    nella parte anteriore che non è stata rifatta, che mi sembra sia la
    maggiore distanza dal vero.Lei dimostra comunque che la vettura di
    Glinkenhaus non è una P4 originale con le sue foto relative al motore,ed
    inoltre la posizione della stessa Ferrari, che ha negato il numero a cui è
    molto affezzionato Glinkenhaus,e la mia stessa convinzione negativa e
    quanto asserito da altri non dovrebbe fare credere che questa vettura
    possa essere considerata originale.Io non sono potuto andare in Sicilia
    per motivi di salute e di lavoro, ma sarò a Montecarlo.Ho cercato di fare
    chiarezza sui due tipi di telaio per evitarle commenti e problematiche.
    Grazie per
    tutto con infinite cordialità e rispetto
    Mauro Forghieri”


    Gabriele Longoni very kindly translated Ing. Forghieri’s above email which is as below:

    “Dearest Mr.Robertson

    I believe you are the biggest P4 expert living nowadays.

    I really liked the set of pictures you sent, especially the one about 412 s/n0854 bare chassis and during restoration.

    Please note, however, that both Glickenhaus’ car and the real P4 #0858 don’t have the tube you pointed with red arrows on picture n°4 (412P s/n0854) while they have the tube you point with arrows on picture n°3 (dp3 arrows).

    This different configuration is because of the differences between a 412 and a 330 engine.

    The rear portion of Glickenhaus’ fake P4 is completely new and these details couldn’t have been missed by coachbuilders that built real P4s.

    I believe that the biggest differences from a real one are in the front section.

    You, with those engine pictures, are proving that Glickenhaus’ car is not a real P4; and Ferrari’s belief too is proving it, because they refuse the number that Glickenhaus loves most; my personal negative belief then and what others said should make anyone believe that this car is original.

    I could not travel to Sicily due to health and work issues, but I will go to Montecarlo.

    I tried to make things more clear to avoid further problems to you.

    Thanks for everything, respectfully and with the best regards.

    Mauro Forghieri”
     
  6. G. Pepper

    G. Pepper Two Time F1 World Champ
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    That seems definitive.
     
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  8. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Frankly, I'm stunned that anybody cares that much about a car, any car. If I was a juror and had to sit through days of crap like this, I'd be pissed. I'd be really, really pissed.
     
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  9. Jeff Kennedy

    Jeff Kennedy F1 Veteran
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    So, would you be pissed that someone was a perpetrator of falsehoods or that someone put together a conclusive argument that proved that the falsehoods were in fact false?

    For those that have missed a far larger point - a very inside group of the "very knowledgeable" had ruled some years back that this car was ineligible for IAC/PFA judging because it was not the real thing.
     
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  10. TTR

    TTR F1 Rookie
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    Thanks, but I must've made myself misunderstood again(?) and I apologize for that.

    I expected to see a photocopy of an ACTUAL "letter", you know, the kind that's usually hand written, typed or printed on some form of paper and often includes a signature of the person who dictated, typed or wrote it.

    I don't know what/where FERRARISM is, but would I be correct to assume that's where the ACTUAL "letter" or its legible photocopy can be found ?
    As far as I can understand, your above reply just appear to be copied/pasted text, which anybody with a computer, probably even me, could've typed/uploaded ?
    I don't claim to have any expertise in legal matters, but I doubt above would be sufficient as evidence in those circumstances.

    Again, nothing I've seen so far has me convinced of anything definitive.
     
  11. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Isn’t that a pretty appropriate statement for a car Piper said was a replica and Ferrari says was trashed and doesn’t exist.
     
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  13. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
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    I get that. But, come on, these are just cars. There are far more important things in life.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
  14. JAM1

    JAM1 F1 Rookie
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    Well, I don't have access to recipient Steve Robinson's private email box to gather a time stamped copy and track down IP addresses to verify the email if that's what you're looking for. Perhaps he can take a screen shot of the email and post that here. But the question I'd pose to you in response is; IF as you say anyone with a computer could have typed the text I posted, and knowing JG's propensity to at least threaten litigation, then wouldn't it be safe to envision JG suing the living hell out of Robinson IF the validity of the email text from Forghieri were a valid concern? Certainly JG is aware of the copy/paste content as it's been published on several sites without refutation or any evidence to show it was fabricated. Wouldn't this absolutely destroy who's probably be the biggest critic of the '0846' story JG has perpetuated? With the jugular of such a critic that vulnerable, I cannot imagine JG not striking the final blow. Can you?
     
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  15. Juan-Manuel Fantango

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    OMG I had no idea Jack Dorsey was involved in Ferrari Chat!
     
  16. Juan-Manuel Fantango

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    Lower case g for earthly gods;) example: Rob is the Fchat god, a true earthy creator. He has created a platform that has evoked all things humans crave. Entertainment, knowledge, comradeship, happiness, and for some...sadness.
     
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  17. Juan-Manuel Fantango

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    #214 Juan-Manuel Fantango, Sep 22, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2018
    While many will agree with your knowledge and postings, and I would call it the black or white reasoning; Jim is doing something good by exposing this car to many who have never seen it. Please do not critique my use of commas as in Mike Pompeo's recent memo. He was right you know-about the proper use of punctuation.
     
  18. willrace

    willrace Two Time F1 World Champ
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    That's irrelevant to what you may have thought was a point that would somehow delegitimatize any and all things JG. I'm kinda surprised that you didn't demand to know how many cars Jim built from discarded stock certificates in his home garage.
    The actual letter, rather than one possibly typed by someone who very obviously has an agenda against JG, would be expected. If it's an email, access to an impartial person to verify it in the account of the claimant, with the time stamps that accompany each and every email, would make all of the difference.
    Steve's rabid attack of all things JG suggests either instability, that JG himself directly wronged Steve in some significant way, or as someone suggested, he is acting on behalf of someone with an interest in the other side of 0846's existence (possibly Steve, himself?).
     
  19. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Keep in mind what ever Jim has endured, Steve has endured 10x over. The Jim fan club was about 99.9% in the day and Steve was even wrongly banned by mods for years. Now the fan club is in the minority, but they are willing to “overlook” 0846 or “who cares”, but who’s trolling who?
     
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  20. AceMaster

    AceMaster Three Time F1 World Champ

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    What is Steve's username here on FChat?
     
  21. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
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    You really haven't been paying attention, have you?
     
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  22. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Fact: I used to be in the 99.9% fan club. I'm proud today to be in the .1% club.
     
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  23. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Now I think about 70-30 or even more opposite of before.
     
  24. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Spoilsport. Here I thought I'd finally made it to the 1% of the 1% club. :cool:
     
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  25. AceMaster

    AceMaster Three Time F1 World Champ

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    That's not the answer to my question.

    If you don't know, then don't respond.
     
  26. Korr

    Korr F1 World Champ
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    Moving the 0846 debate thread to Recreations & Non-Period Rebodies sub forum would result in a few hearty LOL moments from a lot of people.
     
  27. JAM1

    JAM1 F1 Rookie
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    That's where it belongs though.
     
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  28. Ducman491

    Ducman491 Formula 3

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    #225 Ducman491, Sep 23, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2018
    Steve is MuiraSV

    He was absolutely correct in his assessment of the car Jim calls 0846. My only issue is that he can’t let it go even though Jim hasn’t been here in years making his claims. I followed the thread as it happened over the last 14 years and it’s done. Steve won. Now give it a rest.
     
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